Brut WWS analysis, really need a hand here

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Brut WWS analysis, really need a hand here

Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:35 am

I got my second shot a tanking Brut last night and it didn't go so well.
Last week was my first time and it took a few attempts to get the fight down but on the 4th everything went okay and we killed him.

Last night, we had 6 attempts and then I got pulled in favor of a druid.
Fortunately/Unfortunately our server started crashing repeatedly and the raid was called.

We had an attempt or two where the issues were not because of my tanking but 3 of the others were because I died. As far as I can remember none of my deaths were during a stomp. I was first up and seemed to get through at least 1 transition with no issues.

Attempt #2
http://wowwebstats.com/6qb5y5zhd5u5o?a=66&s=5266-5399

Attempt #3
http://wowwebstats.com/6qb5y5zhd5u5o?a=66&s=5731-5876

Attmempt #4
http://wowwebstats.com/6qb5y5zhd5u5o?a=66&s=6117-6255

Attempt #5
http://wowwebstats.com/6qb5y5zhd5u5o?a=66&s=6500-6635

Attempt #6
http://wowwebstats.com/6qb5y5zhd5u5o?a=66&s=6714-6743


I'm still kinda new to reading WWS but as far as I can tell on each attempt I'm taking more damage than the warrior. We are both at the same basic gear level aside from the fact that he has T6 boots.


Is that damage within the expected margin?

He has a couple % more avoidance than I do but neither of those should make a huge difference right?

Any thoughts from you guys on what might have happened?


The thing the bothers me most is that I was successful last week but not this week and I definately have a better handle on the fight now and was a lot smoother. I had one mistimed taunt the caused an extra slash to the other side that lead to a wipe and one taunt that didn't cast which ended up having no real effect because I got it to cast 2sec later.


"He was hitting you like a truck."
"It's not a matter of avoidance."
"28,000 Damage is too much to heal through."
"The druid dodges more."
"Were you casting AS when you died?"

They are some of the things I heard afterward.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:44 am

The "the druid dodges more" looks the only reasonable one.
Avoidance is king on this fight, second only to armor.

What were your stats?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:53 am

Attempt5 wrote:21:44'27.921 Brutallus's Swing parried by Dragonzbane
21:44'27.921 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 4034 Physical damage
21:44'28.171 Dragonzbane gains 48 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'28.562 Morleck's Holy Light crit heals Dragonzbane for 8081
21:44'28.953 Dragonzbane gains 444 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'29.125 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 11761 Physical damage (395 blocked)
21:44'29.125 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 4780 Physical damage (395 blocked)
21:44'29.375 Vash's Flash of Light heals Dragonzbane for 2046
21:44'29.781 Dragonzbane gains 226 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'29.921 Animus's Lifebloom dot heals Dragonzbane for 998
21:44'30.140 Vash's Heal heals Dragonzbane for 212
21:44'30.156 Dragonzbane gains 110 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'30.281 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 5928 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:44'30.281 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 12526 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:44'30.515 Dragonzbane gains 23 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:44'30.562 Morleck's Holy Light heals Dragonzbane for 5409
21:44'30.968 Dragonzbane's Death misses Dragonzbane



In 3 seconds you took 5 hits, and only received one big heal.


Attempt4 wrote:625 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 5148 Physical damage (395 blocked)
21:38'24.625 Brutallus's Swing parried by Dragonzbane
21:38'24.625 Animus's Rejuvenation dot heals Dragonzbane for 1179
21:38'24.875 Dragonzbane gains 74 Mana from Judgement of Wisdom
21:38'24.890 Dragonzbane gains 130 Mana from Spiritual Attunement
21:38'25.750 Dragonzbane's Judgement of Light dot heals Dragonzbane for 95
21:38'26.078 Dragonzbane gains 74 Mana from Judgement of Wisdom
21:38'26.484 Brutallus's Meteor Slash hits Dragonzbane for 19552 Fire damage
21:38'27.265 Dragonzbane's Death dots Dragonzbane

In 3 seconds you took only HoTs, a 5k hit and a 20k meteor slash.


Attempt3 wrote:21:31'37.562 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 6660 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:31'37.562 Brutallus's Swing parried by Dragonzbane
21:31'38.203 Dragonzbane's Earth Shield heals Dragonzbane for 920
21:31'38.203 Morleck's Flash of Light heals Dragonzbane for 2214
21:31'38.203 Brutallus's Stomp hits Dragonzbane for 6337 Physical damage
21:31'38.625 Naeru's Chain Heal crit heals Dragonzbane for 5651
21:31'38.625 Vash's Flash of Light heals Dragonzbane for 2083
21:31'38.781 Brutallus's Swing heals Dragonzbane for 0
21:31'38.781 Brutallus's Swing heals Dragonzbane for 0
21:31'38.984 Morleck's Heal crit heals Dragonzbane for 279
21:31'39.734 Animus's Regrowth dot heals Dragonzbane for 581
21:31'39.968 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 9701 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:31'39.968 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 3330 Physical damage (636 blocked)
21:31'40.218 Dragonzbane's Judgement of Light dot heals Dragonzbane for 95
21:31'40.218 Morleck's Flash of Light heals Dragonzbane for 2176
21:31'40.218 Vash's Flash of Light crit heals Dragonzbane for 3022
21:31'41.000 Morleck's Heal heals Dragonzbane for 204
21:31'41.000 Vash's Heal heals Dragonzbane for 190
21:31'41.015 Naeru's Chain Heal heals Dragonzbane for 2146
21:31'41.328 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 4429 Physical damage (395 blocked)
21:31'41.328 Brutallus's Swing hits Dragonzbane for 10271 Physical damage (395 blocked)
21:31'41.781 Dragonzbane's Death misses Dragonzbane

Again back to back hits with only small heals incoming.

There's really not much you can do on that part
1: Why did the paladin use FoL AT ALL? O.o
2: In this fight, syncronous healing kills the tanks. Ideally the healers will have different amounts of haste to minimize the chance of all heals landing in the same time, leaving a big unhealed gap.
3: that slash felt so, so wrong.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:06 am

Worldie wrote:The "the druid dodges more" looks the only reasonable one.
Avoidance is king on this fight, second only to armor.

What were your stats?


Well, I guess I'm looking for a comparision to the warrior in this case because we were both tanking last night.

I could post some WWS with the Warrior Druid tanking but the groups would be different, we were missed one of our best priests last night.


I'm trying to figure out if I'm missing Buffs like Commanding or if I'm getting Lifeblooms, Earthshields and PoMs.

And to find out if there are any gaps in TC or Demo or any other debuffs that could have lead to me taking more damage.



Stats Here:

Me:
http://armorylite.com/us/kHadgar/dragonzbane
Badge Ring over Eternal
Pocketwatch over Commendation

Warrior:
http://armorylite.com/us/kHadgar/telos
Pocketwatch over Commendation

Druid:
http://armorylite.com/us/kHadgar/ranma
Pretty sure this is the gear he uses on Brut.
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Postby Havn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:12 am

Ironshields being used I assume? Your gear is plenty good enough to tank Brutallus without problems. As long as the other tank is a Warrior you should take the same amount of damage as he does. On top of that you will be able to put out a lot more threat then him.

This is a fight where Tanks will die. Like someone else said if healers end up synched and the tank doesn't avoid a hit he can get exploded. In this case the healing wasn't good.

It is a crappy situation to be in man and I feel bad for ya. People like to blame it on the class when things aren't going right. It is a slippery slope and your best bet is hoping your gm is reasonable and showing him the WWS and explaining healing wasn't good.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:13 am

On the last attempt I was in I remember the combat log looking something like:

- Parry
+ ~8k heal
- ~10k MH hit
- ~4000 OH hit
+ ~2300 FoL
+ ~900 tick of a HoT
+ ~200 Tick of something else (might have been the Crystal Spire tick)
- ~4000 OH
- ~10k MH
Dead

All of those hits were blocked for ~650 so my Libram had just proc'd after a judgement.

Is it normal to be only getting ~3200 heals in between hits?
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Postby Havn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:17 am

What trinkets do you run on this fight?


Man your gear is better then mine and I've tanked Brutallus since day one for my guild without a problem. If you are using ironshields and still dying without the stomp effect something is wrong elsewhere.
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Postby Ryu » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:23 am

1. Good use of trinkets, consumables is important. When you announce the taunt, and taunt 3 secs after ssying it, pop moroes', inisgnia or seed, roatet between those two whenever you taunt.

2. As an above poster said, healers can't synchronize heals, ever, that kills tanks.

3. Pala's using FoL should be removed from the raid and replaced by healers who know what spells/ranks to use in Sunwell.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:26 am

I don't agree with 1, trinkets and seed should be saved for stomps

Neither with 3, you need someone constantly spamming the MT with quick heals as well.
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Postby Havn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:34 am

Edit: Went through the first attempt of your WWS.

The whole problem is healers using flashes and low rank heals while stomp is up. That is just plain bad healing. You are taking the same amount of damage as me and the warrior I tank it with.

As long as you are saving nightmare seeds and your trinkets for stomps you are doing everything you should.

http://wowwebstats.com/zrh5nf5zhtyh3?s=6546-6903

That is our last kill of brutallus. My avoidance was quite a bit lower then his this time around not really sure what happened. Probably him getting a few good commendation procs. Some weeks I take less damage and sometimes he does. Our avoidance and avg damage taken per hit is normally almost the same.
Last edited by Havn on Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Atreidies » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:34 am

Worldie wrote:Neither with 3, you need someone constantly spamming the MT with quick heals as well.


No. FoL has no place in this fight but for early burns.
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Postby guillex » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:35 am

Here's a little rundown of the excuses, because honestly, from what Snake posted, that was the healer's fault.

"He was hitting you like a truck."


"I wasn't paying attention to healing, I was picking my bum, and only saw you with your life past 50%, so I thought I should toss a FoL or HoT on you"

"It's not a matter of avoidance."


"I'm an idiot who doesn't know wtf I'm talking about, but I'm going to toss out a word that pertains to tanking to make myself look like I know what's going on, and to make you feel stupid."

"28,000 Damage is too much to heal through."


"I'm STILL NOT PAYING ATTENTION to the MT, I'm healing the raid, I'm tossing you small heals because the other healers will keep you up"

"The druid dodges more."


Druids dodge more yes, because they can't stack other avoidance stats. WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!

"Were you casting AS when you died?"


"Again, I'm silly and grasping at excuses so that nobody realises that I'm doing a terrible job"





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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:42 am

How many healers are assigned to doing nothing but spamming heals on the current MT?
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Postby Havn » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:45 am

Atreidies wrote:
Worldie wrote:Neither with 3, you need someone constantly spamming the MT with quick heals as well.


No. FoL has no place in this fight but for early burns.


Agreed. FoL has no place. They can get away with slightly down ranked HL when there is no stomp up but they had better have the tank topped off just before that stomp hits. While stomp is up it is max rank or the tank is going to die.
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:46 am

Atreidies wrote:
Worldie wrote:Neither with 3, you need someone constantly spamming the MT with quick heals as well.


No. FoL has no place in this fight but for early burns.


We found that our good way to heal tanks is 1 quick-heal spammer and 2 big healers. Maybe works differently from others, but that 2-3k every 1.3 seconds is saving our tanks.
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