Prepping for SWP ...

Kalecgos, Brutallus, Felmyst, M'uru, Entropius, Kil'jaeden

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Prepping for SWP ...

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:16 pm

So we've got BT/MH clears down to two raid days, which leaves us with time to go poke at SWP (we raid 3 days a week, 3.5 hours a day).

Reading through the various threads in this section I'm coming to a few conclusions:

- EH EH EH EH EH, and more EH
- Lawl BV
- moar HPs
- Your AD won't save you now, my pretteh!

I have just over 20k hp when tanking Illidan. I've got 5pc T6 (but wear 4+badge legs). I still have VR bracers, but aside from that I'm done with BT. Well, the Illidan hat too, actually.

So it comes to rings and trinkets. I've been running with a stam + Hydross trinket for ages now -- is Commendation + DMC:V the way to go in SW? I've seen lots of references to needing 2.1-2.2k hp to not flop over dead in SWP, but the only way I can get there (w/o Imp/Commanding) is stacking stam trinkets.

Is the add'l health on Band of the Abyssal Lord ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32261 ) worth the tradeoff on BotED ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29297 )? My other ring is the badge, which seems too good to replace with anything else (stam, dodge, armor).

I realize at this point it's micromanging a few dozen stam, but game of inches and all.

Spec-wise, I've dumped out of Redoubt and Shield Spec, which makes my favoured PoJ build a little less "steal a point from here and there"-ish.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZxhxhx0drgatVbx0h

I remember we used to all trash Imp Devo as not being worth 5 points for a few hundred armor, but in SWP it seems more useful than proc'ed BR or a small amount of BV. Is this the case?

Also I'm wondering if I should switch meta gems back to the 18 stam/5% stun resist. I love me my tons-o-defense (I have 556 def), but I'm wondering if in SWP that 18 stam might not be prudent.

I've checked the armories of SWP paladins and I don't see much of a consensus at this point.

Comments and suggestions?
Last edited by fuzzygeek on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby moduspwnens » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:34 pm

Personally, I prefer stacking as much Stamina as possible. These bosses hit hard enough that you'll never reach much of an "effective health requirement," and since you're losing 25% of your avoidance once you step in, the avoidance you still have is less valuable. It's a big jump going from being missed 65% of the time to being missed 40% of the time (or less).

Anyway, I recommend stacking EH, but I've seen Lore uses two avoidance trinkets, so it'd be good to get his advice, too.

fuzzygeek wrote:I remember we used to all trash Imp Devo as not being worth 5 points for a few hundred armor, but in SWP it seems more useful than proc'ed BR or a small amount of BV. Is this the case?


You'll still want the proc'd BR and (in a block value set) large amount of BV when tanking Felmyst's adds. It's also worth mentioning that although in a Main Tanking set, 30% block value isn't much, it's probably a good idea to take it and Redoubt over Imp Devo Aura because you're no longer being missed/ dodging /parrying / blocking every attack, but at least with Redoubt up, you will.
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Postby Splug » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:25 pm

At the same time, while you need a decent effective health base, 500 hp is not going to save you from Brutallus's spike damage, and usually Kalecgos tank deaths are the result of not having many healers in the area and slowly getting punched down. I'd venture that EH is less valuable in Sunwell as well, simply due to encounter mechanics. But I've always been a bit of an avoidance fan, so take that with a grain of salt. Despite avoidance being less valuable per point than it was in BT, encounter mechanics tend to make EH less impressive as well. Really, Sunwell falls on the healers more than anyone else - tanking stats are set with very little realm for adjustment, and as long as you have the item value it tends to come down pretty much within a range of 1k hp and 4% avoidance. There's not a ton of space for tuning gear without making some fairly extreme tradeoffs.

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Postby Afraithe » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:17 pm

The damage from a boss such as Brutallus is very predictable, being able to take 1 extra hit (well 2 hits actually) and survive might just give that extra 0.5 sec that the healers need, especially on tank switches etc.

The thing with avoidance and Black Temple is, that after a while you can stack so much avoidance, the the chance of you getting a full 5 streak of no miss/dodge/parry is almost insignificant, thus, you can not die from burst damage.

This thinking does not quite work in Sunwell. Of course, avoidance is still useful, but you (and most importantly, your healers) have to understand that instead of the BT "unlucky-streaks" type of deaths, you will take constant high damage and its more turned into "lucky dodge streak", that might also cause your death if your healers stop healing then, happens to me all the time.
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Postby moduspwnens » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:09 pm

To be clear, 51 stamina on a trinket is 64 stamina to Protection Paladins, which is 640 health.
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Postby Elsie » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:19 pm

- EH EH EH EH EH, and more EH
- Lawl BV
- moar HPs
- Your AD won't save you now, my pretteh!

This really isn't true in sunwell. You need, at max, 24k temp buffed hp to survive brutallus during stomp. Frankly, with the base stam on new gear, you're best off gemming to slot bonuses. 10 dodge rating, 10 defense rating, 15 stam should be standard. Though 5 agi / 7 stam and 5 defense rating / 7 stam can have merit. Remember we're starting behind warriors in avoidance in this place due to AGI on their t6.

When you first step in, EH is the only thing you can really do to survive. As you get drops though, avoidance is more important.

BV is basically stamina further in as well. You will be able to hit uncrushable without any problems with sunwell gear (largely due to insane BR on tier 6). In general, you need to survive 3 consecutive hits. That means 10 BV is 30 hit points or 3 stam. Obviously on m'uru and aoe felmyst this doesn't apply.
(remember BV is +30% and stam is +28.26%)

That said, every boss is unique. EH is pretty hot on Savrotharr since he does a knockdown. You generally want 24k hp and tons of armor then avoidance on brutallus. On Sacrolash you want 23k or so hp and tons of avoidance. On M'uru your HP is insignifcant compared to any avoidance you can muster.

You CAN get it over 45% or even over 50% with sunwell radiance. At those levels it becomes reliable again. For instance, my unbuffed avoidance right now is 67%, which puts me a bit over 71% easily buffed. With insect swarm and serpent sting, your effective avoidance is 78%, or 53% with radiance and I still lack the pants/chest/helm from here.

Anyway, to answer your questions more directly...
1. Two stam trinkets is a bad idea. DMC:V is pretty bad now. I'd recommend Commendation+shadowmoon insignia in general. Commendation is really good on kalecgos and M'uru. I would use pocketwatch on brutallus over it.

2. Yes, the HP on Supremus ring is certainly worth it, as is the minimal threat gain. The Ring of Sundered Souls, badge ring, and Hyjal ring are all situationally good.

3. I highly recommend getting a holy paladin to spec into it if you care for the improved devotion. On brutallus I generally get improved devotion from a holy paladin, and use Concentration aura for him.

4. I use the 18 stam gem because it's easier to get gem-wise with gear swaps and I only have 1 functional helm. I'd love to try out the 12 defense 10% BV meta but it's too risky for me, and would be bad in general for Sacrolash/brut I would imagine (not tested)

I've checked the armories of SWP paladins and I don't see much of a consensus at this point.

Paladins can't even agree on a 'best spec' much less how to gem/gear! Really, whatever works for you and your guild is best at this point. The only thing you'll find an agreement on is that we're awesome.
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Postby merinos » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:58 pm

What seems to be working best for myself (although I can only speak for Kalecgos right now) is a set focused around effective health combined with avoidance trinkets, i like shadowmoon insigna + pocketwatch for this, additionally i usually wear kazrogals gemmed with 10hitrating to avoid getting yelled at too much for resisted taunts <.<

with effective health i mean badgering+slikks mainly, those 2 items already boost up the armor by a significant amount, though i switch to pepe's for the hitrating usually sooner or later, those taunts really are embarassing if your other tank has to take his portal "now" but is forced to wait another 15 seconds for you
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Postby Tankznspankz » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:59 am

Start farming those ironshield pots
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