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Postby Targonis » Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:47 pm

Salt wrote:One of my good friends recently leveled a Paladin specifically to tank. I told him what I tell everyone who talks about paladin tanking to gear up paladin tanking.

"My healing gear was better than my tanking gear for a long time."


QFT

I had a +2200 Healing set built in order to be able to build my prot set. It's just way easier to find groups and you can do heroics way sooner when you're repairing damage instead of taking it.
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Postby farmerjohn » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:02 pm

Vikrum, I know that feeling! My first heroic when I started was ramps. Needless to say, I was like holy shit! But don't worry, you'll get more gear as time goes on, and you will be able to AOE ramps. :)
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Postby Joanadark » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:44 pm

your story brought back memories of me dinging 70 for the first time.
I remember upgrading directly from t2 legs w/ ZG enchant to Timewardens.



With regards to your question, welcome to the rest of your tanking career. The fact that you survived long enough to escape the instance pretty much means you have the gear level to adequately get by with a full group.

Remember:

-in a group you will have all kinds of buffs that DO make a difference.

-There are all kinds of things a group can do to your enemies to debuff them or stun them or kite them around or CC them which reduce damage in-flow.

-in heroics, heals get chain-spammed on you. This is something new compared to your experiences leveling up, and is something both you and your healer buddy will need to get used to.

-You don't really AOE tank heroics at the gear level where the drops from them are useful to you. I only started really AOE tanking heroics at t6 level. What CAN work pretty well is 2-tanking heroics to split damage flow, provided your healer is solid. I had lots of success running a warlock-mage-tankadin-warrior-resto druid setup for heroic mechs early on.

-Ramparts is a tough heroic. I still loathe running heroic ramps. Run SV or Mech/Bot as a newly dinged 70.
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Postby Salt » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:22 pm

Targonis wrote:
Salt wrote:One of my good friends recently leveled a Paladin specifically to tank. I told him what I tell everyone who talks about paladin tanking to gear up paladin tanking.

"My healing gear was better than my tanking gear for a long time."


QFT

I had a +2200 Healing set built in order to be able to build my prot set. It's just way easier to find groups and you can do heroics way sooner when you're repairing damage instead of taking it.


I also found that running heroics as a healer allows you to learn pulls from someone who has tanked before without dragging a group into a new place and wiping due to being unfamiliar with heroic mode instances.
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Postby Barathorn » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:40 am

I think somewhere on this site we need to have something along the lines of the following paragraph, I am sure I have said it a million times but I will say it again :)

The path of a Tankadin is long, your gear will change gradually in the struggle to reach 102.4%, and as soon as you get there you will be at 109% before you realise. On this long road there are few, if any shortcuts, just take your time, experiance the content so you learn, get used to balancing your gear and most importantly, have fun! Also please note that it is easier to gear for heroics by doing karazhan than it is to gear for karazhan by doing heroics.

Good luck Vikrum, enjoy the level 70 instances!

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Postby Kyrael » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:44 am

Big grats on lvl 70 :)


Barathorn wrote:Also please note that it is easier to gear for heroics by doing karazhan than it is to gear for karazhan by doing heroics.


QFT

Back when I had collected almost everything I could from the "get uncrushable before kara" list and was wanting to tank kara, my old guild wouldn't let me until I got the badge libram...
I got some good friends together, in t4 gear, and tanked UB and SP..Things in there seemed to hit like trucks, and only through the efforts of the healer and our CC did we manage to struggle through...

Once I finally got my libram so they would let me tank, I showed up for a kara run, flasked and ready when the warrior wasn't, and they let me maintank up to and including Curator (except Maiden) before we called it for the night. I was thrilled, and it was just so much fun.

I don't know why, but kara was by far easier than heroics. My threat was more than good enough, and with three healers they had no trouble keeping me alive. Most likely it was so much easier because of all the group buffs/debuffs we had.

These days I solo aoe tank kara in I guess a bit more than 2 hours altogether. And I still don't like heroic ramparts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it takes a group to do heroics and raids, but the bigger the group, the more forgiving it is if you are slightly undergeared.
Also, make sure you start on the easier heroics. I actually find Ramparts to be a pain, but so many people go there as their first heroic, probably because it's the first outland instance, and they expect it to be easiest on heroic, too. It's not. At all. Easiest, in my opinion, is actually Slave Pens... mobs are mostly melee, and you can skip quite a lot of them if you know the instance

I'm quite distracted at work right now, so before I manage to derail my own post I'll just wish you good luck and happy tanking
:)
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Postby Janduin » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:03 am

Just for perspective, getting wtfbbqpwned stepping into heroics solo is not something that should bother you...the mobs do hit a lot harder there. In sort of T5ish level gear I decided to see if I could solo-aoe the first pull in normal SH. No problem, as it turns out. Then tried the first mob in heroic. Had I not zoned, I would have been toast. And T5 level gear is far above where you are.

Incidentally, normal SH is great for leveling alts :) My girlfriend took her lvl 59 pally in there the other day and we 2-manned the entire place, with 1800 XP per mob killed (rested). No FotC for her though, unfortunately.
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Postby Hoops » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:31 am

I was the other way around, i took it too slow starting heroics. I was in half kara epics before i did my first heroic on my tankadin.
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Postby Talmus » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:07 am

Joanadark wrote:-Ramparts is a tough heroic. I still loathe running heroic ramps. Run SV or Mech/Bot as a newly dinged 70.


Ramps was my first heroic...and I'd never run Ramps normal before doing it heroic...and no one in my group had ever done a heroic...and we had 2 melee dps.

That was a long, long 3 hours. :cry:
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Postby Balanor » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:58 am

kalbear wrote:Do your research, get your gear, then tackle hard stuff. No tank is going into a heroic and succeeding using that gear.


[/quote]

He has plenty of hps and armor to do the easier heroic instances with appropriate CC. Hell, I broke my cherry in heroic SP and heroic UB back to back with less gear than he had. The next day I went with 4 other people in a PUG and completed H Bot where the only problem we had was on the demon boss but he too went down.

He's already said he has a regular group he runs with and they sound like they at least know what their doing which makes for a recipe for win. I currently have around 17.5Khps when group buffed and 17K armor and I STILL use a little crowd control at times.

With all the nerfs that have gone on over the last few patches, heroics aren't the killer instances for smart groups like they used to be.
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Postby Levantine » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:08 am

I remember that guy.

He likes to sac me twice in a row.... there were also only two sacs.

The second time it happened the tank was all like, fuck this, blow your loads, guys.
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Postby Janduin » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:21 am

I maintain any heroic except MgT is pretty much AOE-tankable at T4 level and definitely T5. I'd wait for T5/T6 gear before trying H MgT AOE style. Aside from threat, T5 level gear is in general better damage-mitigation wise for AOEing heroics than T6. I have no idea why anyone would wait until they had T6 to AOE heroics. Maybe they need to find better healers if it's a problem at that gear level.


P.S. This applies to post-gigantic early-BC heroic nerg. Pre-nerf...yeah, maybe you needed T6.
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Postby Nikachelle » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:43 am

VikrumthePally wrote:
kalbear wrote:
Judging by these forums I am more than ready to tackle heroics (with CC and not AOE tanking mind you) with a good group. Or as it is very possible did I miss something?


You just dinged 70.

You haven't run most normal instances. You certainly don't have the quest rewards, the rep rewards, or most of the normal drops. You have 10k armor and 10k health.

And you picked a harder heroic.

Do your research, get your gear, then tackle hard stuff. No tank is going into a heroic and succeeding using that gear.


If you go to Lookit's guide to tanking heroics and click the link that suggest what gear to be shooting for you will find that I have almost ALL the pieces the link suggests. So I really don't understand how you can say I don't have the gear or the rep rewards. I have all the KoT rep rewards.

2nd do research? Due to my low number of posts it may look like I am just the occasional browser. I have read almost each and every post in detail.

I guess with my OP I was a little misleading. Let me rephrase I am not looking to be the tank that everyone can depend on for all the hard stuff like all the heroics and kara YET. I have easily tanked each instance all the way through BM normal. I still have a lot of work to do.

All my post was doing was to say hey here I am newly 70 pally and on top of the world and a heroic mob showed me where I stood in terms of his DPS to my DEF. For God's sake I went in alone. I had no intention of "solo'ing the instance" I just wanted to see how hard the mobs hit.

I have easily tanked 9 of the 15 available. So again I don't know what you are talking about.

And the "that gear line" heh I guess you showed me. I was thinking I actually had a really good set of gear to just have hit 70 last night.

Also TBH I didn't ask for one lick of help in my OP. If I wanted advice I would have went to the 5man/heroics forums. I think this should show the intention of my post. Now I am not non appreciative. Targonis offered tips and I gladly accepted! And I am very very thankful for all the replies that have been given. I love this place.

Sorry if this reply comes off harsh. Guess I just took offense to your post. Most likely you meant nothing by it and I just am taking it wrong.

P.S. Again my wow sig is FTL. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... s&n=Vikrum

11.7k hps and 11.8 armor and 495 def all unbuffed.


I, for one, enjoyed your first post. I thought it was pretty true to how everyone felt when they hit 70. I'll admit I was quite similar when I hit 70: I thought I owned the world, and got smacked right back down to earth when I even tried to do an SP heroic (which, in of itself, is one of the easier instances). It was a shameful experience. But I liked your story. :)
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:48 am

I did too. :)

Run some more normal runs, in the upper tier instances (SV, TK instances, SH) -- you'll pick up some good upgrades, build your block set and get uncrushable, etc. Keep trying the easier heroics in your meantime -- badges make for good upgrades too. Have fun!
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Postby Kriskringle » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:07 pm

Heh, good times stepping into heroics. A little while ago I was sitting at 11k HP/12k armor and still leery of jumping into a Heroic PuG, but after a couple hours of one group saying "need tank for HSV" I finally whispered them "hey, I'm a little undergeared for heroics, but I'll give it a shot and you can keep trolling LFG for a better tank".

Anyway, we hopped in to SV and proceeded to kick butt, all the way up to the first boss. All my group mates were really excited and supportive, and then one of us said "Hey, I don't think this is on Heroic Mode..."

So we laughed and ran back out, and the group leader set the dungeon to Heroic mode. We went back in and took the first Naga pull, no CC. I barely survive. Second naga pull - I die as the first naga dies, the second naga dies before it can kill any of the others. Then we try the bog lord, or whatever the big green dude is. Ouch. I get rolled, group wipes. Everyone was okay about it, we were laughing for a while, and we called it a night rather than try again. It was a fun adventure and a nice introduction to massive damage. Now I'm sitting at 12k HP and 15k armor and I can't wait for my four freshly-70 friends to get heroic ready.
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