I got put in my place

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I got put in my place

Postby VikrumthePally » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:20 am

So last night. Got with my normal group members to run an easy Sethekk Halls normal. I need 4% to hit 70.

Now my group is pretty stout. 69 shad priest in all blues from OL instance, 70 ele shammy same gear with a couple purps, and our healer 70 resto shammy all purps. And just whoever wants to tag along. Last night a 70 hunter that was actually losing on the DPS meter to our shammy healer but that is another story.


So we are running along. I am counting the kills until I ding and can put on my Continuum Blade, my Felsteel hat and gloves, Timewarden leggings.

I hit 70. And boy I feel like a champ. All I can think about is the movie 300 and how bad those guys are. They weren't scared of anything. With about 50% of the instance left. I was just going nuts. Pulling the mobs without having them marked, just throwing caution to the wind. The healer said in group man Earth Shield is the only thing it takes to heal you right now. I haven't casted a heal in about 10 minutes. Boy did that make me ego swell. On top of the world is where I was.

So we smoke the instance. I hearth out go to the bank to get all my gems, get chants, you name it.

After all was said in done there I am in Orgrimmar, looking at self buffed numbers of 12.6k hp / 12.6k armor and 495 def. Got my awesome blade with 40 spell dmg (holy crap that costed more than I thought) again no one could take me down.

The time had come. It was time for heroics. All my friends had logged cause they were "too tired." Not me I pressed on. So there it was. /2 (yes I know it's trade but NO ONE talks in general chat on my server) 70 paladin tank LFG. Looking for some heroics.....45 minutes later not one bite.

Still not deterred I said. Well lets just see how hard these guys really hit. So checked my key ring. Had my Heroic Hellfire key on me. So I said i'll zone into ramps and just play with those first two guys. See what this gear is all about.

Im standing in front of the instance...switch to heroic mode. And yes that's awesome. A skull shows up. I was so pumped. I zone in, see the increased level on the first two mobs. I was about to see what these guys had finally. No more reading about it, no more watching people's vids. It was go time.

So I adjust all my stuff, get ready for the pull, and release the frisbee.
Here they come. Almost time.

Don't have a combat log but this is about what it would have looked like had I posted it here...

1:15:05 am Vikrum 100% health
1:15:17 am Vikrum 11% health and doing everything he can to reach the instance exit which was steps behind me.

So yeah. Boy was I deflated. I think our healer (who happens to be my RL best friend) wouldn't be able to keep me up with that kind of dmg.

So for now I guess AOE tanking is completely out of the question. I mean in normal level 70 instances with him healing I can easily take 6 level 68's-70's. And yes I know that starting out I will need to use some CC. But boy I never dreamed 2 mobs would make me look so bad. :oops:
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Postby Worldie » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:26 am

Well, trying to directly jump from neo-70 into mindless AoEtanking heroics wasn't a good idea :)

You'll need still some improvements before you can do that. Keep the work up.
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Postby ulushnar » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:28 am

Yep, learn to walk before you run.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:29 am

And learn to play before you... um... something
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Postby VikrumthePally » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:31 am

L2p? Wow what's that about?

Judging by these forums I am more than ready to tackle heroics (with CC and not AOE tanking mind you) with a good group. Or as it is very possible did I miss something?
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Postby Exalt » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:40 am

you might, MAYBE be able to aoe tank an UB or SP.... maybe... with a good healer.

As you get more d/b/p you'll find that you can slowly start aoe tanking more and more heroics. Go in with CC that know how to CC with a pally around (ie. mobs are cc'd before they're in consecrate range) and you'll be fine. It's an uphill battle, but if you've got a solid crew that trusts you, you'll get through it and be able to aoe tank heroics in no time.
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Postby Targonis » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:41 am

VikrumthePally wrote:L2p? Wow what's that about?

Judging by these forums I am more than ready to tackle heroics (with CC and not AOE tanking mind you) with a good group. Or as it is very possible did I miss something?

It's all about the group, always. I have 19.3k buffed HP and I still die in heroic ramps if my healer isn't on his game, or runs out of mana because the DPS can't take stuff down fast enough.

Run with a solid group and its no problem, run with a shit group and "LOL guys sry guild needz mah" bubblehearth.

Not much else to be said really, you have low armor for where you'd want to be as your armor is your direct mitigation for melee damage, also you left out for block/parry/dodge which are equally as important.

Link your armory for a better discussion on what can be improved, maybe well be able to provide some tips.

Also, never hop into a heroic without a healer just seeing what you can do, 12 seconds is a long time... its time for 4 greater heals, and DPS to do damage, all said and done you should be fine.
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Postby VikrumthePally » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:46 am

Oh yeah guys. I am not trying to go in there and be super tank right now. I guess I was just somewhat surprised at the DPS output of those mobs. With a good CC'er and the healer and 2 dps I run with I have no doubt that I should be able to tank the easy heroics right now.

I know it will take badge gear, etc before I can wthpwn those places like some of you guys do.

And yeah my wowsig is FTL.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... s&n=Vikrum

ps I have no idea why salvation is on me lol.

Also my current goal is to replace my wrist. Also is Warchief Mantle http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29316 really a better item than my current shoulder piece?

And I have 120 armor on my back cause I can't decide if I should go with more def or the 12 dodge. Anyhow yeah. I'm always open to tips!
Last edited by VikrumthePally on Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dustin » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:46 am

Thats funny I was the same way when I went into H ramps. When I did do ramps at equiv gear lvl I always tried to bring 2 mages. Hell one time I even brought 3 :) You just have to be selective for awhile when running heroics. When I started I would never tank more than 2 mobs at a time and even 2 if I could get away with it. Sure that may seem cautious but its better than risking a wipe. You will have to use alot more skill at this gear level to succed than the balls to the wall hop in and consecrate constantly attitude. FYI the rogue with the dogs will eat you appart fast when he stuns you. Anyways good luck :)

Oh yeah another thing I did when selecting my grp was never bringing less than 2 dependable CC per run and maybe 1 dps that couldnt cc or had some limited CC abilities. It just makes life easier, and causes less wipes.
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Postby Arcand » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:01 am

The numbers you posted look - just - good enough to try some heroics, but you'll be the weak link in your group for a while.

I suggest that you check out the Heroics forum, where we've hashed out on several occasions which are the kindest heroics in which to begin. (My votes: Slave Pens and Mechanar, especially with the right CC.) Unfortunately the Hellfire Citadel ones don't make that list too often; orc mobs in general hit hard and have nasty special attacks like stuns and mortal strikes.

I also submit that you won't regret bashing away at the normal 70 dungeons for a while, especially Steamvault which offers two and a half pretty nice tanking drops plus a Revered rep reward.

And even better, you'll meet other people around your gear level, and when they graduate to heroics they'll have you on their friend list. Suddenly you're not the undergeared baggage anymore, you're the guy with pretty good gear who makes the run easier. :)
Last edited by Arcand on Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Trilynne » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:02 am

Heh, I feel your pain, buddy. Ramps is tough on the tank for sure. Take a stab at SP first, with some good CC and a good healer. Heroics are called 'heroic' for a reason. :P Actually, why not get your flying mount and do normal TP instances, like Mech and Bot? Get some D3 gear, and there's a nice chest piece and ring in Mech for tanks. I MTed Kara, and I had issues with H Ramps. x.o But our healer wasn't very good.
Cool your heals, get more gear, and you'll be running heroics soon enough with no issues. ;)

PS I did the same thing as you, but went into H SP with a Healer, and <490 defense. OUCH. x.o I was dead faster than you could say 'wtf?'
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Postby Kinrain » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:27 am

Congrats on 70, and all the gear upgrades you got.

That might be part of the problem though. It took me a fair while to assemble the gear I needed to AOE tank Heroics, and during that time I learned exactly how far I could push the healer. (Basically when he starts to scream you have pulled enough).

But getting all those choice items at once you probably thought you could jump right in, i'd probably have done the same.

But don't judge your ability by a solo fight vs two heroic elites. Heroics are a team game and with a competent healer and some good dps (especially once that can do some serious aoe like Mages or Seed of Corruption spamming Locks) you'll do brilliantly and gain a lot of respect and new freinds.

Start working on the items you'll need to become uncrushable and you'll be maintanking Kara before you know it.

Heroics (except MgT) will seem mundane once you have the right gear..
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Postby kalbear » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:33 am

Judging by these forums I am more than ready to tackle heroics (with CC and not AOE tanking mind you) with a good group. Or as it is very possible did I miss something?

You just dinged 70.

You haven't run most normal instances. You certainly don't have the quest rewards, the rep rewards, or most of the normal drops. You have 10k armor and 10k health.

And you picked a harder heroic.

Do your research, get your gear, then tackle hard stuff. No tank is going into a heroic and succeeding using that gear.
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Postby VikrumthePally » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:35 am

You guys are all great.

Again I have my set 4 that I always run with. Not boasting but I have 3 to 4 dps'ers on my friends list that always want to run with us and fill that 5th spot.

Speaking of the 4 we aren't going to start doing heroics right now. I mean if someone asks in general chat LF tank for heroic X instance then i'll cast my vote (as long as it's one of the easier instances mentioned) and see if they want me or not. But no my normal group and I are on a progression to finish out all the normal instances at least once before we step into heroics. By that time yes I will have a few other nice pieces etc.

The only question now is which CC to bring. Because of those dps friends on my list none of them are mages. We have had maybe 3 mages since doing the 65+ dungeons and all of them have sucked.
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Postby Playdoh » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:48 am

It doesn't matter as much anymore.

The shield does not break rogue sap. And if a hunter complains about pulling off of you just tell him to kill it instead of trapping it. Actually as a pally i <3 mind control from an spriest for cc also.

When there are more than 3 things you have to pull and you have a hunter, try to use the shield on the 3 that isn't going to be the hunters cc target though.

You probably already know this but remind the cc to cc AFTER the shield, that way the cc target has front loaded threat and will come to you if it breaks not the healer or mage.
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