"What is your view of pala single target tanking?"

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"What is your view of pala single target tanking?"

Postby Andox » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:50 am

In my own application I´ve decided to include the question "What is your view of Paladin tanking, how do you see yourself when tanking a single mob?" because my friend, who is in that guild, said that the officers wanted to know more about paladin single tanking.

My answear is this:

This is the hot question, how do you compare a Paladin to a Warrior when tanking a single mob or boss? First of all, I have to say that I´m not geard in full MH/BTas many of your dps, I´m a late T5 tank. Therefor I will not do as much TPS as a T6 protection paladin would be able to do. But I still hold my own on the bosses I´ve tanked so far, it also work fine on the trash. Our main strength is of course multimob tanking, but there is nothing wrong with our single tanking skills.

For example there is a Paladin who MTed Brutallus on his guild first kill, they killed him before the enrage. I´m not saying that I will be able to do this with this gear, but as soon as I get some MH/BT items I will make a good amount of threat on the target you want me to tank.


At a second sight I find this quite dull, and boring. I´m not sounding that enthusiastic as I wanted. But I neither want to sound jerih or like a elitist in my application, any tip from the pros? ;)
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:04 pm

I wouldn't accept that answer and ask you to answer again >.>
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Postby Refute » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:08 pm

I'm not a pro, but I would point out the fact that, like all tanks, tankadins have certain strengths and weaknesses against single boss encounters.

If you want to highlight some strengths:

- Very high (probably highest) initial threat of any tank class
- Very strong against fast attacking melee mobs (like Prince)
Etc... (there are many more).

I suggest you take a look at the "officer's guide" post under the basic training forum, it's helpful to give a high level overview of what a tankadin can do well and what he cannot do as well with.

I would say be fair in your description. Some tankadins take the approach of "omgz tankadins are so ubah why even have a war!?!?"... that's simply wrong. Every tank class has its strong fights and its weak fights and as such, a smart raid group will have all 3 tank types and adapt according to the encounter while equallly recognizing that, for the most part, any tank can tank any encounter, although some are harder for some classes.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:13 pm

Simply put, tankadins generate very high burst threat on single target, and sustain threat similar/higher to a warrior until late T6, where they catch up. Mitigation wise a paladin is at advantage against fast hitting monsters simply because we can block more of the attacks we don't avoid than others would, while being at disadvantage against casters compared to warriors and druids since we lose a small portion of our threat.

We also generate bonus threat on demons/undead.
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Postby Aalryn » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:26 pm

to put it simply... Its pretty much the same as everyone else.
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Postby cougarr » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 pm

1. Even with how insane warrior tps is in t6 content, a tankadin on a demon can give your dps some serious room to go all out. If your warriors are having tps issues anywhere in sunwell, and I mean dps even having to hesitate for an instant a tankadin will help a lot.

2. We are good single target tanks, comparable to warriors but slightly less ideal. Specifically, we take 4% more physical damage and 6% more magic damage, we also generally have 2-3% less avoidance than warriors. That being said, unless your warriors have enough expertise to remove parries from the combat table (possible but hard to do without gimping a lot of other stats) tankadins get parried a whole lot less. This translates into less spike damage. Furthermore, for something like brut (a fast attack mob) you will block a whole lot more than a warrior. Even though you are not blocking for a lot, that mitigation is significant if you are comparing warriors to tankadins; the difference really is that small. These two things combined make up for a portion of the mitigation edge warriors have.


3. If you dont have a ret pally in the raid, tankadins are the next best thing for keeping up JoW.


4. We outscale warriors in stamina as we get more SW gear.
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Postby kalbear » Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:11 pm

How do you see yourself when tanking a boss? What an odd way to phrase the question.

The real question is this: What benefits do you bring to tanking bosses that a warrior does not?

Here are some:
1. Paladin blessings. With you as one of the raid's paladins it's not as necessary to bring holy paladins, and holy paladins become increasingly less valuable as you progress in content and the amount of raid damage increases.
2. Full rage bar: no other tanking class can output as much threat as quickly as a paladin can at the start of the fight.
3. Ranged threat: no other class can put as much ranged threat as a paladin can in a short amount of time, other than perhaps a warlock.
4. Holy Shield: a paladin will take significantly fewer crushes than a warrior will due to the mechanics of holy shield and the amount of charges it has. Also, a paladin will take less damage from fast-hitting mobs because of holy shield's large amount of charges.
5. Lesser burst damage: because of holy shield and because most of a paladin's threat generating moves do not melee, a paladin tends to be parried less than a warrior, which will result in fewer bursts of damage
6. Usefulness outside the tanking realm: a paladin has a lot of abilities that make them useful when not tanking. A blood elf can do significant damage in their ret gear while not requiring a spec change. Any paladin can strap on good healing gear and do a decent job of healing when it is required. Having another BoP, LoH, or set of judgments on a boss can be a significant bonus.
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Re: "What is your view of pala single target tanking?&q

Postby fudomyou » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:23 pm

Andox wrote:"how do you see yourself when tanking a single mob?"


Usually as the back of my head, since my camera gets scrunched up nicely against a wall. Notable exception is Zul'Aman, where I actually get to see my nicely armored bottom.

</stupidity>
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Postby Blaen99 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:21 pm

I've been able to push 1.6k+ sustained TPS of late...Granted, on demons/undead, but exorcism isn't a huge TPS boost.

I'm tanking even Archimonde over a prot war due to this. Not so sure about our supposed "lack" of threat so long as you have an extremely tight rotation and can keep it up over a prolonged period of time.
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Re: "What is your view of pala single target tanking?&a

Postby Amirya » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:10 pm

fudomyou wrote:
Andox wrote:"how do you see yourself when tanking a single mob?"


Usually as the back of my head, since my camera gets scrunched up nicely against a wall. Notable exception is Zul'Aman, where I actually get to see my nicely armored bottom.

</stupidity>


I lol'd at this
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Postby Jonesy » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:00 am

Blaen99 wrote:I've been able to push 1.6k+ sustained TPS of late...


Would like to see a WWS of this.
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Postby Blaen99 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:15 pm

Jonesy wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:I've been able to push 1.6k+ sustained TPS of late...


Would like to see a WWS of this.


Sure. Next time we do Gorefiend, done.
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Postby Frickit » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:39 pm

With the gear that has been coming to me relatively easy I would say that all three classes are equal at boss/single tanking. We also have the added bonus of being able to AoE trash tank. There is nothing we cannot handle well enough. Its all a matter of gear choice not class choice. We have threat and we mitigate damage equally compared to a warrior on a single target IMO.
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Re: "What is your view of pala single target tanking?&a

Postby Frickit » Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:40 pm

Amirya wrote:
fudomyou wrote:
Andox wrote:"how do you see yourself when tanking a single mob?"


Usually as the back of my head, since my camera gets scrunched up nicely against a wall. Notable exception is Zul'Aman, where I actually get to see my nicely armored bottom.

</stupidity>


I lol'd at this


Flip camera FTW thank you Lore 8)
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Postby Converse » Thu May 01, 2008 8:00 pm

I see myself as inferior to a equally geared and Skilled Warrior in "most" situations.

For example pardon the few boss's (Leo for example) the warrior TPS in my guild far exceeds mine when it comes to Boss tanking.

With my stam/block gear I hold about 900-1000 TPS and it does have drops to 600 if i have chain Miss/Dodge/Parry.

In my spell dmg gear I would hold 1000-1100 TPS with drops to 700.

Warriors in my guild have a "sustained" 1500 TPS with spikes to 2k and no noticable drops.

Yes there are many variations out there, different boss's, demons non demons, fast boss, slow boss's.

Im not saying my tanking tps is a problem for my guilds DPS nor has it ever been brought up as an issue. But at the end of the day, with "equal" skill and gear a Warrior should out TPS even the most skilled and geared paladin tank on single targets.

And people talk burst threat from Paladins as a big thing, its not really. "Good" warriors with large BV will open with a SL and start applying devastates very quickly easy hitting 10k within seconds. And fast surpassing a paladins tanks opening TPS within a short space of time. Remember im talking Skill and Gear.

Well thats how I feel about single target tanking vs my warriors in my guild and current experience in BT/Mh

Now If you wanna talk 2 or more targets, now thats a totally different story :D
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