Perculiar pally

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Perculiar pally

Postby Tennah » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:24 pm

Howdy, 1st time poster but long time reader ;o)

Just wana say that ive gained alot of info from this site, especially when it comes to gear (as you will see later in this post). I have been prot for about a month and im acting as MT for my guild in 5 mans and starting on heroics as my guildies gear improves. Aiming to raid Kara in the coming weeks hopefully also. Anyway, I couldnt have got where i am as quickly as i did without this forum so thank you very much ;o)

Now, with the sucking up out the way, lets get down to the point of this post. My guild only has one healer who isnt yet geared sufficiently to run Heroics, so we draft in a friend from another guild who has a Prot Pally as their main tank, both guilds are at the same point in their progression towards raiding, but the thing is their tank is (IMO) very oddly geared.

So, here are the armory links, if you could spare a few minutes to look them over and give your opinions please ;o)

This is me
and
This is the other pally

The thing that puzzles me is my healer friend from that guild says he isnt too much of a problem to heal, they have even completed Heroic Ramparts.

As you can see (if my maths skills arnt failing me) he is uncrittable through large amounts of resilience, which i believe should make him rather prone to damage due to a lack of Defensive damage mitigation from dodge, parry block, and so on (his armor is higher than mine though).

The really crazy thing however, is his spell damage :oS he virtually has none, i would expect this to cause him major threat generation problems on anything but a single mob, which is what we as paladins should excel at, multi-mob tanking, but im told he holds aggro perfectly fine.

So, that is pretty much my rant over, if anyone could explain to me how he manages it, and if he will manage in Kara or other heroics i would love to hear an explanation.

Appologies for the long post, and thank you to those who managed to read this far down ;o)
Tennah - 70 Protection Paladin - Terenas EU
Tennah
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:50 pm

Postby Levantine » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:38 pm

Lawl, that pally is terrible.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Lightstrider » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:39 pm

yeah is gear is all out of wack his talents are out of wack. Ask his dps how good a tank he is. It seems that he had ret gear wanted to be a tank and just respecd thinking the gear will be good enough. it isn't. I would say he's no where near kara level. He'll get out agrooed by mages locks any caster that doesn't pay attention.

Refer him to this site and tell him to ditch the slicer and get a gavel. Ditch the scaled glad armor it's garbage for tanking and get some isntance set peices. I really don't see any way for him to be tanking just fine. maybe if his dps is using like 2 worn daggers or sitting at 200 spell damage as a mage he may tank just fine. I've know boomkins that had better tanking stats then him.
User avatar
Lightstrider
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:07 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Postby Nakati » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:43 pm

Now, Im a human paladin so I dont know that much about seal of blood.. but I guess its that seal he uses for tanking if he is using a weapon like that? :?
Image
User avatar
Nakati
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:15 pm

Postby Lightstrider » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:49 pm

Nakati wrote:Now, Im a human paladin so I dont know that much about seal of blood.. but I guess its that seal he uses for tanking if he is using a weapon like that? :?


Seal of blood is HORRIBLE to use tanking. You don't tank in beserker stance likewise you don't tank with a seal that damages you. I've healed warriors that spec full fury and expect to tank in beserker stance duel wielding. It's a pain.
User avatar
Lightstrider
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:07 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Postby Levantine » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:56 pm

Lightstrider wrote:
Nakati wrote:Now, Im a human paladin so I dont know that much about seal of blood.. but I guess its that seal he uses for tanking if he is using a weapon like that? :?


Seal of blood is HORRIBLE to use tanking. You don't tank in beserker stance likewise you don't tank with a seal that damages you. I've healed warriors that spec full fury and expect to tank in beserker stance duel wielding. It's a pain.


Nope, Seal of Blood does work at lower levels of progression. =/

When it stops working he'll know about it.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Lightstrider » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:15 am

Levantine wrote:
Lightstrider wrote:
Nakati wrote:Now, Im a human paladin so I dont know that much about seal of blood.. but I guess its that seal he uses for tanking if he is using a weapon like that? :?


Seal of blood is HORRIBLE to use tanking. You don't tank in beserker stance likewise you don't tank with a seal that damages you. I've healed warriors that spec full fury and expect to tank in beserker stance duel wielding. It's a pain.


Nope, Seal of Blood does work at lower levels of progression. =/

When it stops working he'll know about it.


The idea behind using a seal that hurts you while being the main tank just doesn't sound good. Seal of blood damage + boss damage = dead pally

or at least thats what the bizzare logic seems to me.
User avatar
Lightstrider
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:07 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Postby Levantine » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:37 am

You'd think so, but nope. At lower level content stuff doesn't hit all that hard. The extra damage means you get healed more, blah blah blah.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Sharlos » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:06 am

Levantine wrote:You'd think so, but nope. At lower level content stuff doesn't hit all that hard. The extra damage means you get healed more, blah blah blah.


still, the attack power needed to get SoB to be worth a damn in comparison to SoR would cause you to have next to no spell damage, gimping holy shield and consecration, a significant amount of our threat.
User avatar
Sharlos
 
Posts: 1566
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Australia

Postby mazater » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:14 am

If the other paladin is running with as badly geared DPS as his tanking gear is, I can believe that he can manage to hold aggro without too much of a problem.

But hell, put him in a group with decent geared DPS'ers and he'll pray for mercy.

And SoB is a bad tanking tool, unless you are invis and tank with a 2hander.
User avatar
mazater
 
Posts: 1130
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:40 am
Location: Winland

Postby Candiru » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:17 am

When you are levelling (64-69) it is unlikely you have a spell damage weapon, or much spell damage at all. SoB will do a lot more threat than SoR in this case, and the 10% damage you take back is essentially nothing.

Once you hit 70 you should be able to get a spelldamage weapon from BM revered, SL, crystalforged sword etc. And the threat increase to consecration is massive.

SoB used to be amazing for tanking when low on mana when it gave you double JoW procs, but they nerfed that a long time ago.
Image
Candiru
 
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Postby Exodius » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:58 am

Well, yes, the other paladin's gear choices are not that good and his talent choices as a whole are terrible.

But to the original poster, your defence is too high. You could change the extra defence gems you have for stamina or avoidance gems, and probably tank better because of it. Extra defence is not worthless, but above the caps it's cheaper to have pure avoidance, for example, the +8 dodge gems. You get more total avoidance at a cheaper item price.

I would also not recommend using spell damage gems. 200 spell damage is plenty for someone just starting heroics or Kara.

Apart from that I would say you have the basic itemisation concepts down pretty good. :D
Image
Image
Exodius
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:09 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Levantine » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:02 am

Sharlos wrote:
Levantine wrote:You'd think so, but nope. At lower level content stuff doesn't hit all that hard. The extra damage means you get healed more, blah blah blah.


still, the attack power needed to get SoB to be worth a damn in comparison to SoR would cause you to have next to no spell damage, gimping holy shield and consecration, a significant amount of our threat.


Just because it's not the best way doesn't mean it doesn't work. I'm not saying that we should all roll BElfs, because I KNOW that SoR is much much better. It's been proven ON THIS SITE, that it's possible.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 10818
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Tennah » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:52 am

Thank you kindly for the prompt responses.

It seems that we agree with each other, either this pallies DPS are poor, or he is working his butt off more than he needs to to tank these instances he is. I think i will try to get a DPS spot in one of his groups on my hunter and see how these runs go.

@ Exodius:
Regarding my high defence, i am aware that this could be lower, but I was under the impression that Defence rating is the most efficient stat to stack until i reach 102.4% combined avoidance, i am currently struggling to get above the 101% mark. As my guild doesnt really have the gear for Heroics on the whole, and i dislike PUGs, i am only very slowly getting my badges for my Libram.

Any Spell Damage gems i have left are for two reasons, im an enchanter and cant face buying enchants, so was filling a gap until i farmed myself the Major Spell Damage Enchant, and because im pretty poor after just buying my epic flier. I should also say that this gear is not the best gear i have available for defence, i have the jade-skull breastplate and an epic belt drop also that take me up to the 101% area. but the gear you see is my 5 man and my farming gear.

either way, thank you for he feedback ;o)
Tennah - 70 Protection Paladin - Terenas EU
Tennah
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:50 pm

Postby ulushnar » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:57 am

Tennah wrote:@ Exodius:
Regarding my high defence, i am aware that this could be lower, but I was under the impression that Defence rating is the most efficient stat to stack until i reach 102.4% combined avoidance.


It's the second-most efficent stat, after Block Rating. After 102.4% has been reached it drops below Dodge Rating in terms of effectiveness.

That said, you only need to reach 102.4% when you're raiding, and with the exception of Prince Malechazzar and Nightbane, none of the Karazhan bosses hit hard enough to explicitly require it.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Next

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fetzie and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Fetzie and 1 guest