Post your Frustrations.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nordix » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:03 am

Core of T15 set issue is the very underwhelming 4set bonus I think.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:15 am

It's that set bonus that allows for 90%+ shor uptime so I don't see how it is underwhelming.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Treck » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:34 am

Nordix wrote:I think we are very good this tier because of how we can abuse most fightmechanics and how most fights revolve around heavy hits we can use SoTR for->onto this comes the insane scaling of SS and haste's interaction with it.

SS does do a lot of dmg reduce, but its hardly what breaks much.
Its the reliability of SotR with high haste that breaks the class.
And SotR working on everything, compared to warriors that only has physical hits that has to be able to be blocked (they got barrier as well that is a great tool much much better than SS, altho it consts resources)
SS is about as usefull as dodge, its there every now and then, but you hardly change your gameplay around much if that shield is present or not.
Its an overall dmg reduce to use SS, not always very good at reducing dmg when you need it, that said its obviously a lot better than dodge since its reliable.

Nordix wrote:Realize,next tier has 90% of the boss abilities tagged with that string that makes you unable to immune
it with bubble or HoP.

This just isnt very interesting tho.
Cause the only real abilities we "break" encounters with bop/bubble are Horridon, Durumu and Iron Qon.
And for either of those fights, you dont need a paladin tank, you just need a paladin in the group for BoP, thats it.
But, on horridon and Qon, its SotR that breaks the fights more than any other tank, and Durumu's "hard hits" are really not that hard, but other classes relying on dodge/parry cant dodge/parry it, so they are at a disadvantage.
Same will be 100% true in next tier, sure we cant bubble/bop abilities, thats more to make 10mans not HAVE to carry a paladin in it, than to make protpallys not able to solotank shit.

Nordix wrote:Realize,they already nerfed vengeance with various caps and gains and now the SS 30% nerf is on top of those->I think it's more than 30% overall nerf.My rough prediction is we'll be reaching current values(5.2) in top gear again.

What caps? they are not in the game anymore and they seem to have been reverted.
There wont be any 30%/50% of your HP caps anymore, and even if they were other classes suffer more from it than our SS ticks, our SS ticks doesnt scale nearly as well with vengeance as Warr Shield barrier for example, or Monks Ox Shields (granted its on other players) or Guard for example. But ours doesnt cost resources, and is low upkeep on it.
BUT its main flaw is also that the other shields can be used as Oh Shit buttons or CDs, SS is not.

Nordix wrote:Realize that paladin dps isnt that great compared to monks and that other tanks got buffed too with a passive called Riposte among other things. The new GC proc is going to be broken on any fight where we can tank multiple adds and the boss or just adds (Monk winning crane kick still better by a mile for dpsing them down tho),yet it will be completely useless on a fight where the boss keeps casting stuff a lot instead of hitting you (like jikun f.ex) or doesn't even have meleeswings ,just spams your face with magic (lei shi).

Yes, we are outdpsed by one of the 4 other classes, you want us to be best at everything?
And even so, at high vengeance levels they play a lot riskier than we do to produce that kind of damage.
I dont disagree keg smash or Monk aoe capabilities are overpowered, but to be fair Druids have even greater dps capabilities than Paladins, they just suck and cant survive past 400k vengeance like we and Monks can.

Riposte, have you understood that mechanic yet?
A common misunderstanding is that it takes your dodge/parry and adds 75% of that into critt. Aka if you got 10% dodge and 25% parry (my own stats), you end up with 26% more crit, and that would be a lot.
That however is very wrong, and it works with rating. Taking my own stats as an example, having 5k dodge, and 4,5k parry, I would end up with about 7k critt, about 12% crit.
With buffs that means that you are going from 10% crit (5.3) to 22% crit(5.4), Sure thats quite noticable, but DKs/Warriors are very far behind in terms of damage in raiding situations atm, that this is a nice little boost for them, they will NOT be overtaking us in dps due to this change.

If you are relying on grand crusader strikes from your crusader strikes right now, you have the wrong mindset about how usefull grand crusader is atm. With high Haste you do about 20 CS per minute, that means you get a whole 2.4 GC per minute, so effectively GC (with CS) grants you almost one SotR extra per minute, thats nice and all but a single DivPurp procc is more potent.
Sure on single target the GC change will be a nerf, but if there are adds, and you can have one or two of them on you, you are almost spamming AVS, this nerf will really not have any kind of negative impact imo, but has the potential to be insanely overpowered with a few adds on you.

And our biggest problem with bosses not doing physical damage but rather Magic, is not that GC wont procc, its going to be that SotR does nothing, same for monks their shit does nothing, Druids armor does nothing, Dks Shields do nothing, Warriors can still Shieldbarrier. Saying Paladins are at a disadvantage cause GC cant procc means you are not even taking the other classes into account. And about bosses that spend a lot of time doing other shit like Jikun, how is that bad? it allows you to easily bank more Holypower to make sure all hits are covered with SotR, you wont need the extra HP for survivability, sure its a small dps decrease, but hardly a big one.

Nordix wrote:Damage smoothing is king,and I don't have any meters besides omen,nor do I care much for them,I want to kill the boss,not kill it while looking badass with explosions in the background while riding a dragon while winning on 5 different meters. There is a difference between smoothing from 500k to average 250,halving,or from 500k to 400k.

And this is exactly what Paladins are King at.
They are the best at reducing all those 500k hits to 250k hits, while Monks smooth them out to about 350k, altho they take a lot less of them due to high avoidance. Warriors are able to reduce to same strengths as paladins if not even better, but relies on dmg beeing blockable, and it does have a fixed ammount of uptime unlike us.

Nordix wrote:What I ultimately DON'T understand,is WHY all these nerfs instead of fixing our broken 4set so we can't keep up sotr 100%.

Haste is doing this, NOT the 4set, it simply helps a lot more than 2k haste would that you would otherwise get.
Someone took a log of mine on a fight like Ra-den and calculated that my 4set gave me the equivalent of HP as 7k haste or so would have given me, im not quite sure about the numbers there but it seems about accurate.
Its basically boosting our Haste WHEN there is shitloads of damage intake, so its dynamical rather than not using 4set gives you static ammount of haste.
What makes the 4set that great however is its ability to scale with dmg intake so that when you take a lot of damage you can almost with certainty reduce all that damage to about half, thus giving you insane smoothing.
And Like Worldie is saying not that many people use it, especially now during farm many people ignore it cause it doesnt make their character sheet look as good, and they cant tell others they got x ammount of haste.
And what I dont get is why dont you use the 4set (When its so overpowered breaking us reaching 100% uptime) and like it rather than asking for nerfs on it.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:17 am

AC broke in the middle of the night. Current temperature inside the house is 83 and rising, and its 9 in the morning.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:28 am

AC is working now, i'm just 200 dollars poorer thanks to it.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nordix » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:14 am

Worldie wrote:It's that set bonus that allows for 90%+ shor uptime so I don't see how it is underwhelming.


I'M talking t15 being underwhelming and t16 (SOO) being strong (t16 is the one that lets you keep sotr up.)
Didn't read treck's post yet,warlock greenfire q keeps me busy:<
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Treck » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:20 am

Heh, no.
T15 is overpowered, and thats why we will keep using that one in T16.
T16 4set is pretty ok atm due to beeing able to fish for DivPurp proccs, but that is tbh likely to change.
If not, then both are pretty good for obtaining 100% uptime, but t15 still does it better.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Darielle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:02 pm

I'M talking t15 being underwhelming and t16 (SOO) being strong (t16 is the one that lets you keep sotr up.)
Didn't read treck's post yet,warlock greenfire q keeps me busy:<


T15 (HP generation with damage taken during DP) + 30 sec cd reduction on DP + cooldown trinket is going to be generating HP to keep SotR up quite a bit more than you seem to think it will.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:55 pm

actually have desire to start working on losing weight again ...and my ankle is fucked up AGAIN!

as soon as it is feeling better though, i am getting out and walking!
(who knew a change of living arrangement plans could light a fire under your ass even though they are a year away?)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Era » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:46 pm

I haven't been able to run for three days because I got a nasty scrape on my heel from "climbing" a mountain last Wednesday.
(I say "climbing" because while it was steep terrain, it didn't require me to use more than two limbs at a time >_>)

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:22 pm

Waking up in the middle of the night with random chest pain preventing me to sleep.

Grrr let me sleep >_<
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Amirya » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:45 pm

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:02 pm

Is there something on this planet I can't break? >_<
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:32 pm

If God were to stand in your way, God would break.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:08 pm

I'm a reverse Chuck Norris basically.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:45 pm

Well, technically, you'd be an AVATAR of Chuck Norris, as things spontaneously break in your vicinity.
This is what being a God of Breaking is all about: you don't need to actively provoke the breaking - your dreams, your breath, your very being suffuses the land around you with the Breaking. And just like that...

snap.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nooska » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:09 am

We do have to give wordlie that he hasn't broken this board yet...


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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:11 am

Honestly, I used to blamed the many temporary breaks we've had those few months on him.

Say, is your middle name "Entropy" by any chance?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:01 am

Nooska wrote:We do have to give wordlie that he hasn't broken this board yet...

I do once in a while ;)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fetzie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:05 am

4 more posts and Worldie has 12345 posts :O
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:09 am

Will be another epic moment.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Era » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:23 am

Worldie wrote:
Nooska wrote:We do have to give wordlie that he hasn't broken this board yet...

I do once in a while ;)


When I mistype my password here, after just one try I instantly get the "too many incorrect tries" and have to remember Paladin spells to prove I'm still worthy.
I attribute that to Worldie. Somehow.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:36 am

All hail the King of Breaking!

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When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:06 am

Klaudandus wrote:If God were to stand in your way, God would break.


No, no.. Worldie is like God's cooler. If something is going too well, things have been running smoothly too long, God sends Worldie in to cool things off.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:17 pm

Klaudandus wrote:If God were to stand in your way, God would break.

so Worldie is a raid/dungeon boss?

(Jin'do the Pug..er God Breaker)
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