Post your Frustrations.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:33 am

at the beginning of trash pulls or halfway thru a fight?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nordix » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:59 am

Klaudandus wrote:at the beginning of trash pulls or halfway thru a fight?

mostly beginning,first 15 secs or so.

For example: Iron Qon trash,i pull both sides with wrath+lights hammer,then the tankspecceddpsmonk strolls by 20 secs later,kegsmash kegthing,spinning crane dick,and 2 sek later everything is on him.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Treck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:04 am

Nordix wrote:Paladin aoe aggro vs monk /other tanks aoe aggro.

spammed some 5mans with guildies,I'm 1 item away from bis (closing in on 550ilvl)and I'M just not able to hold ae aggro on anything proper.

In raid,200k vengeance,hammer of righteous hits for 11k,consec ticks 12k,etc.

WHY.

Comparing with monks is a joke
Heres a fun fact, at same ilvls, warrior Dragonroar does 30% more damage than Keg Smash.
One beeing a nice Burst aoe threat, 1min CD) to make sure stuff will hit you for atleast a sec or two.
The other beeing an 8sec CD that is a major part of your rotation, oh thats right, it also has a +threat modifier...

Oh yeh, monks have Spinning crane kick and Breath of fire so that they can use every GCD they have to make aoe damage, not even cleave, just pure aoe damage, doesnt care if its 2 targets or 10, will still do the same.

Also, at 200k vengeance, Consecration should atleast be doing double that, but its one GCD for easily + 100k damage on each and every target its hitting, yeh its not snap threat but its pretty good upkeep.

That said, tank threat has ALWAYS been an issue going into the later tiers of every expansion.
They tune tanks to do shitloads of threat (and damage) at the start of expansions.
But good gear does a lot for dpsers, but not even close to as much as for tanks, and they just end up outscaling us later on.

Paladins definately doesnt have that great aoe burst to initiate when there are lots of targets, but for 2-3 targets we are great.
Warriors are fine picking up packs every 1min, but after that not as great, thunderclap does more bursty aoe than Consecration, but less overall damage.
Druids and DKs have great CDs to make sure they can pick up adds every now and then atleast.
Pallys still got Holy prism for 5 targets or Lights hammer for many targets.
And if you are having issues keeping threat from people in 550gear when running 5mans, Im pretty sure whatever you were trying to keep threat on, is dead before it reaches the dpsers.
But sure, it depends on what classes your dpsers are as well, if its Warriors leaping in with bladestorm, not even kegsmash can do shit about that.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:08 am

I thought you would not get the threat from Light's Hammer.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:37 am

Klaudandus wrote:I thought you would not get the threat from Light's Hammer.


That was changed either in 5.2 or 5.3
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Treck » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:43 am

5.1 if i recall correctly
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Ruldar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:50 am

I've been seeing that from the other side with my ret pally in LFG groups recently. Since I started getting him semi-decent LFR gear I frequently end up with random tanks who just can't seem to keep aggro. It hasn't really been too much of an issue as far as staying alive goes, but I do wonder how much stress I'm causing the random healers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nikachelle » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:00 am

The healers are probably loving it. Healing actual tanks in dungeons (when I quit) was so damn boring. Was far more interesting to heal dps posing as tanks.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:12 am

Regarding Tortos...

Yes, it's all awareness, but there is some RNG there.. mainly in tanks and kickers getting gibbed at the wrong time. Add in a casual raid group where you always have 2-3 new people, and it's a pain, as Econ21 mentioned on the last page. My 25-man is struggling with Tortos, mainly due to the 2 warrior tanks having issues with the bats, and with people having awareness issues. Last night we added in problems with DBM not displaying countdowns on breath correctly, or at all. I've also had to start dropping my traps to slow the turtles further back, because it's giving the tanks problems seeing the rockfall circles (and I suspect that some dps might be having problems with that as well).
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby benebarba » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:19 am

Nikachelle wrote:The healers are probably loving it. Healing actual tanks in dungeons (when I quit) was so damn boring. Was far more interesting to heal dps posing as tanks.

The first time (at least this expansion) I (as DPS) ran into any tanks with threat issues was this past tuesday in pinnacle, where pretty much all of the DPS were riding the tanks in threat through entire encounters. I am pretty sure they even lost aggro a few times to one or two.

when I found myself even on the same page as their aggro bars in omen, I did a doubletake... because my ret DPS is pretty crappy.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nooska » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:24 am

Treck wrote:5.1 if i recall correctly

5.2 I think - I don't think I actually tanked in 5.0, and I can remember the issue with Sagara (DK, outbreak + 2x talented bloodboil, after letting Sag beat on them for ~10 seconds would pull all but the main target (and sometimes that too) - but then again, I'm actually not 1005 certain Sag used HP
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Jabari » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:27 am

halabar wrote:Regarding Tortos...

<...> mainly due to the 2 warrior tanks having issues with the bats <...>


Treck mentioned something just above that I'd never even thought of with my warrior. Try having the bat-tank spec into Dragon Roar for an AoE snap-threat tool. A TC/Roar combo might be a decent way to get the bats on the right person.

Also, if you're running 25-man, would it be a crime to have a third tank to help pick up bats?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:29 am

halabar wrote:Regarding Tortos...

Yes, it's all awareness, but there is some RNG there.. mainly in tanks and kickers getting gibbed at the wrong time. Add in a casual raid group where you always have 2-3 new people, and it's a pain, as Econ21 mentioned on the last page. My 25-man is struggling with Tortos, mainly due to the 2 warrior tanks having issues with the bats, and with people having awareness issues. Last night we added in problems with DBM not displaying countdowns on breath correctly, or at all. I've also had to start dropping my traps to slow the turtles further back, because it's giving the tanks problems seeing the rockfall circles (and I suspect that some dps might be having problems with that as well).


What my raid does too is put a line of markers on the area... you want to kill the turtles when they're between tortos and that line so you can kick them on time. if they're past that line, by the time you get the warning, the kick is gonna be too late
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:59 am

Jabari wrote:Also, if you're running 25-man, would it be a crime to have a third tank to help pick up bats?

Depends on the DPS. The last bit (usually last 20%) is essentially a DPS race before being overwhelmed by turtles. If DPS is strong you can afford having a 2nd tank.

Also... Hunters, did they train Misdirect? Helps a ton to get the initial aggro off the healers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:07 am

Groumph. Tell me about it. We still have issues withme tanking bats on Heroic - if my HW fails, it's game over for one healer.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:15 am

What can help is tanking Tortos until ~3 seconds before the bats first spawn, that gives you some vengeance to play with for the first set, which is the one I always had trouble with.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:30 am

Nah, it's more a problem with the *healers* that run AWAY from me. Net result being the HW hitting too short, *GNAP* dead healer.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nordix » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:58 am

In 5mans it is always only if I'M with my guildies (and they are on their highly mobile dps chars like a mage /shaman just blinking and ghostwolfing ahead,dropping bombs and orbs and such while I'm still pulling the 5th pack,etc)

Stuff dies before anything bad could happen we 4dps 1 tank them
Still pretty frustrating that I have to plan on every GCD and still fail ending up stunning 1 taunting 1 while attempting to aggro the rest WHILE having to move already to pull next pack:D
2-3 targets pretty easy but 5+ while having to stay mobile and in motion and chaos is unleashed

MEANWHILE MONKS.....
yeah..:\

This would be an issue on fights like horridon,megaera and tortos if we wouldnt have the dpsmonkoffspectank guy.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:59 am

Worldie wrote:
Jabari wrote:Also, if you're running 25-man, would it be a crime to have a third tank to help pick up bats?

Depends on the DPS. The last bit (usually last 20%) is essentially a DPS race before being overwhelmed by turtles. If DPS is strong you can afford having a 2nd tank.

Also... Hunters, did they train Misdirect? Helps a ton to get the initial aggro off the healers.


I'm on MD duty, which would be easier if we had a few more ranged killing the turtles, so I could be watching for the bats. If the bats get scattered, MD is useless...
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Flex » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:10 am

uh oh...Steam Summer Sale is now live.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:25 pm

halabar wrote:
Worldie wrote:
Jabari wrote:Also, if you're running 25-man, would it be a crime to have a third tank to help pick up bats?

Depends on the DPS. The last bit (usually last 20%) is essentially a DPS race before being overwhelmed by turtles. If DPS is strong you can afford having a 2nd tank.

Also... Hunters, did they train Misdirect? Helps a ton to get the initial aggro off the healers.


I'm on MD duty, which would be easier if we had a few more ranged killing the turtles, so I could be watching for the bats. If the bats get scattered, MD is useless...

That's why you should MDshoot them before they even hit the ground. If you turn your camera up, you can target them since when they spawn on the roof, and can Shoot them before anyone gets the chance to AoE them down. They will all head for THAT ONE HEALER (usually me)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:01 pm

Flex wrote:uh oh...Steam Summer Sale is now live.


Already bought Hotline Miami and will probably end up buying another 10 games that I really don't have the money for :<
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Era » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:09 pm

Teranoid wrote:
Flex wrote:uh oh...Steam Summer Sale is now live.


Already bought Hotline Miami and will probably end up buying another 10 games that I really don't have the money for :<


Tell me about it... :lol:

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:11 pm

I'm really hoping Deadpool and Rogue Legacy go on sale at some point. Deadpool looks fun but not $40 fun.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Era » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:17 pm

Teranoid wrote:I'm really hoping Deadpool and Rogue Legacy go on sale at some point. Deadpool looks fun but not $40 fun.


I've been looking at Rogue Legacy too, saw a trailer a while back and it looked interesting, and a friend of mine seems to enjoy it... :lol:

man,Rogue legacy is really addictive...
Only stopped because my hands were cramping.
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