Post your Frustrations.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Shoju » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:44 am

The game hasn't changed? What? Seriously?

From the time I started playing to the time I stopped playing it had been changed quite a bit. And then MoP was another round of large changes to the way things work, the "things" that you do in the game to "do" other things have changed.

Pet Battles alone is evidence that the game has changed. They are staying with the same age demographic, which means that they changed what they had in the game. I'm no longer a part of that age demographic. I even said that my tastes changed as much as they changed the game.

The only thing that would point to burnout, is my citing of Firelands and DS loot tables, and it's effect on my desire to raid.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:48 am

I don't really feel like pet battles have changed the game. They're like a sidegame in a much larger game (like Blitzball in FFX). And it's not like it's required to participate since it doesn't net you any gear or anything specifically helpful for raids that you can only get from pet battles. If you never even knew pet battles were introduced in this expansion, you'd never even notice it in game.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:48 am

I don't think the talent changes made things less research intensive. I don't think there were even as many "do I take this ability, or that ability" in the old trees as there are now - in fact, most talent trees took every major spell and had their options in minor utility and passives ("hmm, do I take shorter interrupt cooldown or a 2% spell damage increase?" - the only actual talent decision I had to make in Cata).

I'll admit the tuning on the new talents isn't always quite there, though. I almost never change my talents at the minute - Shaman talents aren't the best, and the two tiers with meaningful choice for dps have definite winners.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby benebarba » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:50 am

Nikachelle wrote:I don't really feel like pet battles have changed the game. They're like a sidegame in a much larger game (like Blitzball in FFX). And it's not like it's required to participate since it doesn't net you any gear or anything specifically helpful for raids that you can only get from pet battles. If you never even knew pet battles were introduced in this expansion, you'd never even notice it in game.


until I learned of the ease of getting lesser charms through them, I'd placed them on the same level as the fun, but quickly forgotten, minigames like the flying joust (or the A.T. Joust, for that matter - except that wasn't really fun) and plants v. zombie minigames.

I actually think the farm is a bigger game changer than pet battles.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:52 am

That bird jousting can go diaf.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:02 am

i gotta second Nika and Bene, the pet battles was a fun, but forgettable part of the game as a side thing to do when you are tired of farming, doing dungeons, or pvping...until i found out how easy it is to get lesser charms from it

hell the legendary chain is a much bigger change to the game than pet battles...it is for everyone, spans the entire expansion, and gives you a lot of lore and possible foreshadowing of the next expansion(s)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Shoju » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:15 am

I'm not saying that somehow Pet Battles fundamentally changed the game. I listed it as one of the things I was unhappy about, that they invested resources in. I would have rather them invested that time into the ill fated dance studio instead of pet battles. (Not that I care about either). But the fact is, Pet Battles are a sign that they are trying to keep the game marketable to the same age demographic. My age of people aren't in that demographic anymore. It's fine. They wanted to put that system in, and as I've seen a lot of places, there are people that love it. And a lot of those people (I'm not saying all) are the same people that enjoyed, and in a lot of cases grew up, with Pokemon. I was an adult when Pokemon came out. I don't begrudge people that like pokemon, it was just not something that ever interested me.

It's fine. I don't care. They did it, I didn't like it.

I don't see how the new talent system can even remotely offer the same level of research as the previous talent trees at a theorycrafting level. There are 18 total spells and abilities to look at, and you only have to compare them in groups of three. There is no more debating on what talent point in what spot is going to be the best. use of that point against a large pool of where you could put that point. The choices are fairly simple.

For Example. I'm looking at the Blood DK Talent Tree right now.

Row 1. How do you want to deal with diseases.
Unholy Blight is probably the better of the AoE Disease tools if you are dealing with a large group of adds coming in at the same time on a fight, or AoE tanking.
Roiling Blood would be better than that if you are dealing with a fight where you could get adds while you are currently tanking soemthing.
Plague Leech would be the best for Single Target Tanking, as long as you had some sort of disease tracking addon, so that you could make the most of it.

Row 2. Cooldowns.
Lichborne - If I'm able to pool my RP on a fight and have a large predictable amount of healing that will need done to myself. This is my choice.
AMZ - IF the thing works better than it did in previous expacs, I would take this on a fight where I need to mitigate damage over a group of people at a predictable time.
Purgatory - Would probably be my progression choice, and choice against hard hitting bosses, or large packs of adds that could kill me.

Row 3. Utility
Death's Advance Would probably me my go to ability 90% of the time.
Chillblains If I'm kiting something
Asphyxiate isn't much of a tank spell, but I'm sure there could be a fight where it might come in handy, but definitely not too often for a tank. Seems more PvP

Row 4. Self Healing
Death Pact - Probably my Go to. 50% of my health, and doesn't kill the ghoul.
Death Siphon - Would be pretty nice on a range fight. I'm assuming there is a rune cost, since one isn't listed.
Conversion - Would be an interesting choice when compared to Lichborne. I would probably run Conversion as a CD to help healing, while I would use Lichborne when I need to hit myself with larger heals.

Row 5. How do I get more runes.
This should really be a playstyle choice. I'm unsure how they work in game, but if balanced right, it comes down to what you like. With all things being equal, I'd probably go with Blood Tap, since It's consistent, and no RNG.

Row 6. AoE Effects with no Damage.
Gorefiends Grasp would be for those times when I need to taunt a large amount of adds coming in at one time.
Remorseless Winter. Looks like it would be a lot of fun in a kite / Add tanking when I don't need Grasp to round them up sort of thing.
Desecrated Ground Uh... times when you could be feared, slept, charmed.

There isn't much research into what is better or worse, unless in theory, some of these abilities just aren't balanced well in game. And then it's really just an elimination of choices.

To me, they are all if/else statements. To me, that's not as intriguing as what the talent trees could have been. They never got to where they could have been, and there were talents that aren't as good. This is a viable solution to the problem that talent trees faced. But for me, it just isn't something that interested me.

I don't begrudge them changing things. I was a little irritable at first, but I got over that, before I even quit the game.

I also didn't like the inclusion of farms. That's just not compelling gameplay for me anymore. Maybe it is for some. And I don't mind that. But it wasn't a feature that I was like "WOOHOO! I GET TO HAVE A FARM!"

The things to do in the game outside of raiding and dungeons changed. They made dailies near mandatory. They made this bizarre tie in between solo content, and PVE/Dungeon/Raiding Content that I didn't like. It happens. I'm ok with it. I moved on. They changed, I changed.

I can't believe I'm still feeding into this over a simple "I wonder why people left the game". And with that, I'm done.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby poptart » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:28 am

Imagine that. I go away for 4 1/2 months after I quit the game, pop back on for the first time since and see Shoju with a 15 page post! :)

It appears that things do not change on MTadin! :)

Cheers,

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:54 pm

poptart wrote:Imagine that. I go away for 4 1/2 months after I quit the game, pop back on for the first time since and see Shoju with a 15 page post! :)

It appears that things do not change on MTadin! :)

Cheers,

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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:07 pm

No helm I can use my legendary gem in. I did not realise it had an ilevel requirement until just now. Raid tomorrow, so might get lucky then, but wanted to go in fully upgraded. :(

Staying up late to do yet another LFR run for Twins, hoping for a token.

Edit: Welp, no helm, but I got a weapon and tier shoulders. Now I either don't have any upgrades there, or I have the annoying prospect of replacing two thunderforged items with lower ilevel tier to get a set bonus.

Edit2: Weapon isn't an upgrade over 491 sha-touched. :(

Edit3: And ayup, downgrading 528+528 to 502+522 tier is an upgrade. :/ Losing most of my Thunderforged items!
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:02 pm

Shoju wrote:I'm not saying that somehow Pet Battles fundamentally changed the game. I listed it as one of the things I was unhappy about, that they invested resources in. I would have rather them invested that time into the ill fated dance studio instead of pet battles.


Gotta say, that's just an excuse to make yourself more sure about your decision.

If you don't like the new trees, think other things are oversimplified, and don't like the new PVE stuff, that's fine, but if anything if you were still playing, you should be happy they came up with something popular that is keeping the game going.

Designing the game to fit the changing desires of an aging playerbase would be a death wish.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Shoju » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:32 pm

halabar wrote:
Shoju wrote:I'm not saying that somehow Pet Battles fundamentally changed the game. I listed it as one of the things I was unhappy about, that they invested resources in. I would have rather them invested that time into the ill fated dance studio instead of pet battles.


Gotta say, that's just an excuse to make yourself more sure about your decision.

If you don't like the new trees, think other things are oversimplified, and don't like the new PVE stuff, that's fine, but if anything if you were still playing, you should be happy they came up with something popular that is keeping the game going.

Designing the game to fit the changing desires of an aging playerbase would be a death wish.


Why is it an excuse? Because they changed the game to keep it going, and I didn't like it? I didn't like the way it was heading, I didn't like the things that they changed. It's not an excuse. If it were an excuse, I'd have caved when they introduced Brawler's Guild. That feature was completely me. You know me. You know, as well as BL, and others who have played with me in game, Brawler's Guild is as close as I could say I could get to coming back. And when I looked at all the other things that I listed, I still didn't come back.

Those aren't excuses. You may not like my reasons. That's fine. That's why they are my reasons. I don't begrudge you or anyone else for still playing. I don't feel bad that you are playing. I don't feel "better than you" for not playing. If you still find it fun, great. The changes weren't fun for me. I get why they are doing things to keep the playerbase up. Those things aren't what I want in a game. I wouldn't even be playing POE if it didn't fit what I was looking for in a game.

Fuck. I just typed all this up, forgetting I said I was done already.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fenrìr » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:04 pm

I really hope this doesn't discourage you, Teranoid cause I'm trying my fucking hardest to get you in for a trial.

But here we are...third fucking week in a row having to pug a random mother f'r because our 'officers' refuse to take a decent applicant. The only difference is that the past two weeks, the pugs have been at least close to 500 ilvl. This week...this one is 485.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:56 pm

I would have been on but after I posted my logs in my app yesterday I got no response so I went out and did shit. I mean I get it they were posted in the middle of the day but it doesn't exactly take a long time to look through logs for 3 bosses.

Hearing that they want to take pugs doesn't really make me too keen about all this. I've had more than enough experience with guild leadership with their heads up their asses.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:08 pm

We raid from 1:45 to 5:00. My internet today died at 1:15 and started working again at 6:30.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fenrìr » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:25 pm

Teranoid wrote:I would have been on but after I posted my logs in my app yesterday I got no response so I went out and did shit. I mean I get it they were posted in the middle of the day but it doesn't exactly take a long time to look through logs for 3 bosses.

Hearing that they want to take pugs doesn't really make me too keen about all this. I've had more than enough experience with guild leadership with their heads up their asses.



I just don't understand why the 'officers' are so slow on apps when they know we need people and they're pushing us to bump recruitment threads, then they take over a week to reply to anything decent.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:41 pm

Eh I'm just gonna withdraw my app. Took 2 days for my forum account to even be activated and just judging by your posts the officers seem to not give a shit about possibly getting credible apps to advance the guild so whatever which basically tells me the leadership in the guild is absolutely lazy. When I worked 50+ hour weeks even I could take 10 minutes out of my day to talk to them or get them on a trial.

I appreciate the effort for trying to get me in but we're probably both better off not wasting our time. I'll probably just pug or something.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fenrìr » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:43 pm

yea, sorry. I just cannot wrap my head around this tbh.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:55 pm

Eh it is what it is. Nothing else you really could have done. I'd already be in a guild if my PC didn't burst into flames at the mention of doing 25 mans.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fenrìr » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:00 pm

heh, I understand.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby econ21 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:17 am

Got to the point of the Wrathion quest chain where I could get a meta-gem, but don't have a helm that could take it. Why does that have to be one of the few slots not covered by VP gear?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:19 am

Same boat here. No helm above 496. :(
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nikachelle » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:26 am

Well there is a crafted helm.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:56 pm

Nikachelle wrote:Well there is a crafted helm.

that takes luck with the RNG of learning the right recipe on a bs, when you have 2 different pvp sets, plus 3 different crafted pve sets...and takes 8 ToT drops to be DE'ed

so while there is a helm, it will be expensive, if it is available to you at all
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby econ21 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:10 pm

Nikachelle wrote:Well there is a crafted helm.


I have the recipe for every crafted 522 item. But I have not seen a single haunted spirit for sale in my AH.

New frustration: queue for last wing of ToT. Get Lei Shen. No surprise. Get 6 buffs of determination. Disappointing but no surprise. Kill him and take a break. Re-queue expecting to get fresh run. What do I get? Lei Shen. AAAARGH! Get 30 min deserter buff. Run away, run away!
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