Post your Frustrations.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:39 am

Maybe I'm a bit too annoyed/frustrated.

I could use a hug.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:00 am

I'd suggest talking your issues out. I'm aware that you have issues regarding the current and future situation of Shadow Priests. Can you point to a few key points that led to your irritation?

Also, don't worry about naysayers right now. We're talking about your issues, whether they are real or perceived is irrelevant for the moment.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:10 am

I believe I've spammed my issues out, a tiny bit of utility in the form of Hymn of Hope doesn't justify 30% less DPS. I feel useless in a heroic raid.
People have already pointed this out and complained on forums/twitter about the pvp nerfs that are going to affect the PvE, but developers don't seemb to care.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:22 am

I remember GC mentionning he believes this will have a very minor effect. At this point, some hard data showing the effect will be probably needed.

I've looked a bit at dps rankings on Noxxic (for theoretical output) and the old WoW Insider article comparing WoL data (for more practical applications) and I'll admit Spriests number look weak, although less so in the practical application (-7% against median, something like that, against Fury being top-heavy at +5%).

Although, I remember GC stating again that they haven't even begun the number pass. Did he say anything about current SPriests numbers (not rotation changes, really just numbers)?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nooska » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:26 am

All he has said is that spriests needed a pvp nerf, and that it should have a very minor impact on pve. He mentioned in regards to DP being nerfed in the instant damage portion, that that would be easy to make up for pve when they tweaked the numbers. It sounded like they were thinking about moving some of that damage to SW:P and VT, but it could also be that they would be moving it to the DP ticks instead (it could be read either way)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:38 am

so really its another case of PvP screwing something over in PvE?

dammit...i might have to back worldie if that is the case :twsted:
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:46 am

Well it's more like, SP's dps is already very bad on single target, and the PvP nerfs are going to make it even worse.

They can't feed us the story "you are good on multitarget so must be weak at single" cause warlocks are top damage on both situations... quite boring to see our 3 warlocks top meters in pretty much every fight with 2-3% dps advantage on everyone else.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:40 am

Worldie wrote:Well it's more like, SP's dps is already very bad on single target, and the PvP nerfs are going to make it even worse.

They can't feed us the story "you are good on multitarget so must be weak at single" cause warlocks are top damage on both situations... quite boring to see our 3 warlocks top meters in pretty much every fight with 2-3% dps advantage on everyone else.


Once again, warlocks are on the chopping block, so they'd better enjoy the ride while it lasts. You probably shouldn't bother too much about them as *they* are an anomaly right now.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:16 am

We'll see.

I'm surely not rerolling, even changing from Paladin to Priest has been traumatic enough. I'll be playing SP till the end of expansion at least, with or without buffs.

I just hope my assumption in the previous page is wrong, but it's not the first time I hear that.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:42 am

I'm surprised you lend any credence to any such theories. There's been so much crazy theories around how much GC/Blizzard/Activision/the Black Plague has decided to screw hardcore/casual/PvE/PvP/Myclass/myspec that I tend to consider it little more than idle chatter until evidence appears. And then, it never does.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:56 am

Well they did say for example that in DS they introduced legendary daggers to induce people to play rogues.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nooska » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:25 am

There was a rogue shortage - we were lucky enough to have 1 rogue in cata raiding, but even though we would have liked another on the roster at som epoints (I wasn't an officer back then so I'm not sure how much), it was impossible to find one.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:36 am

You also have to remember that rogue numbers have been a problem since WotLK onwards (it's debatable the Death Knight killed the Rogue's niche outright). They tried a lot of things to get people interested in rogues, but as GC mentionned some time before, even big numbers didn't get their population up.

In fact, it's a pretty good example of "balance is not the only element in representation". Rogues are far from underpowered, but they just don't attract people, and I'm honestly as much at a loss as Blizzard as to why that is.Maybe it has to do with all the checks and balance that were needed on the "control" approach Rogues favored, which made the class lose all the finesse that defined it (Sap one target, Blind the second, Evasion-tank and kill the third and maybe fourth, maybe with a bit of stunlocking, Vanish if things go south before finishing the fourth then go back to the second, then the first).
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:48 am

wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/10/encrypted-text-combo-points-chi-and-your-slow-rogue/

This might be why rogues are on decline...
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby benebarba » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:06 am

Klaudandus wrote:wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/10/encrypted-text-combo-points-chi-and-your-slow-rogue/

This might be why rogues are on decline...


A surprising thing I didn't see in there was that combo points are tied to your target whereas chi and runes for Monks and DKs are player resources. Did combo points change? I haven't touched my rogue since cata, except to go learn some new LW recipes.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:02 am

benebarba wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/10/encrypted-text-combo-points-chi-and-your-slow-rogue/

This might be why rogues are on decline...


A surprising thing I didn't see in there was that combo points are tied to your target whereas chi and runes for Monks and DKs are player resources. Did combo points change? I haven't touched my rogue since cata, except to go learn some new LW recipes.

Blizz would just say its flavor, and that there is already a talent that allows you to transfer some combo points if you change targets.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:28 am

yeah...on a 1 min cd base
though at 90 you can pick between no cd for redirect and double the amount of CPs
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:36 am

I still cant blame rogues dropping the class if monks feel more like rogues than rogues themselves.

That is how anne and zeibart have described monk/rogue playstyles on the wow insider podcast
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:44 am

The problem with rogues, at least in my experience, are basically centered around the fact that if you've played one for any feasible stretch of time you realize how antiquated the class is compared with others. Rogues have had very few playstyle changes in the life of this game and the introductions of monks as basically "a rogue but with actual interesting mechanics and the ability to fill multiple roles" basically killed the interest most people had in the rogue class. Hell I gave up on my rogue in Wrath because it felt like nothing ever changed. Classes were getting all sorts of reworks to their mechanics and new stuff and although they got new abilities they just felt so bland.

You know a class is dead in the water when you offer them their own shiny oranges that no other class can have and people still don't play them in any noticeable capacity.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Flex » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:45 am

Klaudandus wrote:wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/10/encrypted-text-combo-points-chi-and-your-slow-rogue/

This might be why rogues are on decline...


The complaint I hear about monks from people who have leveled them is how boring the DPS spec is to play because of so few buttons and how many jabs you do. So to me the monk love that opened the column is just grass is greener navel gazing.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:47 am

Teranoid wrote:You know a class is dead in the water when you offer them their own shiny oranges that no other class can have and people still don't play them in any noticeable capacity.


Moreover, the population drops to worse levels than before they got the shiny oranges once those shiny oranges became obsolete.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:48 am

Flex wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/10/encrypted-text-combo-points-chi-and-your-slow-rogue/

This might be why rogues are on decline...


The complaint I hear about monks from people who have leveled them is how boring the DPS spec is to play because of so few buttons and how many jabs you do. So to me the monk love that opened the column is just grass is greener navel gazing.


Well, they did say Windwalker was really good once they got to lvl 90.

The monk rotation feels so fast. You've got something to fit into every single GCD. Once you have your full repertoire of abilities, you're going to be spamming keys like crazy.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Flex » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:49 am

Klaudandus wrote:Well, they did say Windwalker was really good once they got to lvl 90.


Those complaints are from level 90 players and limited to Windwalker spec only.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:50 am

Ah~ Hmm... c'est la vie?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Sagara » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:05 pm

In fact, I felt really capped on GCDs on my WW. There's just much that is available, and energy keeps capping, and chi is aleeady full - AAAAAAAAH!

Honestly, I'm enjoying my Assa Rogue (70ish) more because of the more controlled, deliberate approach to energy management.
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