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Post your Frustrations.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:58 am

im all for owning guns for use in hunting and such....with background checks and mandatory training

but yeah what shoju said too :)
and i think you need to add the mall shooting into that list
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:00 pm

djlar wrote:Don't go that far, Mexico has way stricter gun controls, 65K dead in 6 years anyway...

Goes for saying but if criminals/insane people want to kill they'll find the means to do it, this shooter could have acquired his armament illegaly, specially if he was 20, I think you have to be 21 to buy those kinds of weapons..


Yeah, and part of the problem is US guns being smuggled into Mexico... guns purchased from licensed gun dealers...
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Gab » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:02 pm

Cause "Gun Control" has prevented mass stabbing in China right?

There's over a dozen children dead. Instead of looking at HOW they were killed maybe we should be looking at WHY they were killed.

While we are banning guns lets also ban kitchen knives and meat cleavers shall we?

Not saying gun laws are appropriate how they stand now but the answer is not always giving up more rights.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:13 pm

Gab wrote:Cause "Gun Control" has prevented stabbed mass stabbing in China right?

There's over a dozen children dead. Instead of looking at HOW they were killed maybe we should be looking at WHY they were killed.

While we are banning guns lets also ban kitchen knives and meat cleavers shall we?

Not saying gun laws are appropriate how they stand now but the answer is not always giving up more rights.


Actually, I was just gonna link the Chinese mass stabbing at a school... seriously, what's up with people this week? Everyone is going batty... is there something in the water? in the air? end of days craziness?

The WHY is because these people are NUTS... and nothing wrong with trying to prevent NUTS from getting stuff they can use to hurt others... which is what Shoju and I talked about.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Flex » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:29 pm

Gab wrote:There's over a dozen children dead. Instead of looking at HOW they were killed maybe we should be looking at WHY they were killed.


Part of the maturity argument is that often times people in positions of power don't want to believe that the WHYs can be things like mental illness and other disorders that remove full culpability from the actor. As long as the people with power continue to act like immature children about even discussing positive steps towards saner gun and mental health laws that can be a step towards preventing gun violence it becomes this circular reasoning behind the not mature enough for guns argument.

Shoju wrote:And I don't think the answer to this unspeakable tragedy is to over react, and scream about gun control.


not directly at you, but the line of thought of "now isn't the time to talk about gun control reforms" after mass shootings is dumbtarded. If not then, when?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:42 pm

Flex wrote:not directly at you, but the line of thought of "now isn't the time to talk about gun control reforms" after mass shootings is dumbtarded. If not then, when?


I understand, and don't take it personally. Don't take this personally in response. Its my general response to the question.

I personally think that Mass Shootings and Gun Violence are separate, if linked, tragedies. Gun Control isn't going to stop a mass shooting. If you have it in your mind that you are going to perpetrate a mass violent crime, the last thing you are thinking about is "Golly Gee, I wonder if I can go to the store and bah mah gun"

You can see the Aurora case as an example. Most of those firearms were purchased, over the internet. Gun Control didn't stop that. Several of the weapons that were purchased and used were illegal to own in Colorado without significant licensing. That didn't stop the purchase. The Gun Control didn't work.

Gun Control, is to curtail violence on a personal level. Mass Shootings aren't personal.

And the idea that mass shootings are the only mass violence, one only needs to look to china today, and see a man who attacked 23 people, 22 children, with a Knife. Chinese gun regulations are supremely strict (almost no private ownership), yet there have been a half dozen ish acts of mass violence in recents years perpetrated against young children, by people wielding blunt, or bladed instruments.

With great power (gun ownership) comes great responsibility. I'm 100% in favor of far more stringent regulations on owning a gun, including a psychiatric profile as a possibility. But this can only work hand in hand with a society that gets its fingers out of its ears, and off its ass about Mental Health. The U.S. is deaf and dumb when it comes to mental health. It's only been recently that we have even thought about it as a serious after care for our returning troops. Mental Health Care is still a taboo subject, and until we strip away that taboo of it, and get down to the brass tacks of it, we are going to have problems.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Gab » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:44 pm

Flex wrote:
Gab wrote:There's over a dozen children dead. Instead of looking at HOW they were killed maybe we should be looking at WHY they were killed.


Part of the maturity argument is that often times people in positions of power don't want to believe that the WHYs can be things like mental illness and other disorders that remove full culpability from the actor. As long as the people with power continue to act like immature children about even discussing positive steps towards saner gun and mental health laws that can be a step towards preventing gun violence it becomes this circular reasoning behind the not mature enough for guns argument.


That's key here. If we can't find a way to keep legally acquired weapons out of potential murderers hands then we obviously should have tighter weapon control but where does it start and where does it end?

I'll just leave this here, for a country that has been implementing stricter gun control they sure didn't account for all the kitchen utensils.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010%E2%80%932011)

It doesn't take a gun to kill people... Look at all the stabbings in China after they stepped up gun control.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:47 pm

Wow... apparently the shooter was actually the son of one of the teachers, and that teacher, and thus her classroom, were the main target
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:52 pm

The problem with gun control is how do you separate the legitimate users of guns (primarily hunting) from the nutjobs? NYC's gun ban is perhaps a place to start, but that doesn't stop everyone.

Another problem is gun culture, as was demonstrated in KC last week.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Flex » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:57 pm

We're basically ruled by children. Any talk of revising and reviewing gun laws is met with anything from "they're taking our guns" to "this is the first step to socialism and UN take over of the United States." Look at the UN disability treaty to see that that mindset isn't just left to the far right paranoid wing.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:01 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Wow... apparently the shooter was actually the son of one of the teachers, and that teacher, and thus her classroom, were the main target


And that's where the mental health issues come in.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:01 pm

Flex wrote:We're basically ruled by children. Any talk of revising and reviewing gun laws is met with anything from "they're taking our guns" to "this is the first step to socialism and UN take over of the United States." Look at the UN disability treaty to see that that mindset isn't just left to the far right paranoid wing.


Sadly, this is 100% true.

They will say that its a ruse to prevent the common man access to guns, therefore making it easier for the UN to steamroll into the US and install a new socialist regime.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Jabari » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:03 pm

halabar wrote:... the legitimate users of guns (primarily hunting) ...


Hold up. The PRIMARY users of guns are ordinary citizens using them for self defense. Are you suggesting that's not a legitimate use?

(Aside: Can we please move all of this discussion to one of the appropriate Asylum threads? There's already a "gun" thread there, and the Politics one would work as well.)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:10 pm

Jabari wrote:
halabar wrote:... the legitimate users of guns (primarily hunting) ...


Hold up. The PRIMARY users of guns are ordinary citizens using them for self defense. Are you suggesting that's not a legitimate use?

(Aside: Can we please move all of this discussion to one of the appropriate Asylum threads? There's already a "gun" thread there, and the Politics one would work as well.)


Wait, a gun thread in asylum? never seen it... I'm ok with moving this to the politics thread...

That said, I live in Texas, we got a castle law... and during the time I had firearms, I only used them at the shooting range and for hunting... I am glad I never used them for self-defense, and I hope I will not need them now that I don't have them. I got knives and airsoft guns, hopefully that is enough to scare the shit out of a trespasser, but my neighborhood is incredibly safe, that and I have a beefy alarm system in the house.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:08 pm

Teranoid wrote:So for the past 2 days the LFR queue for Terrace has been over an hour.

Did I miss the memo about no one wanting to run this anymore? Good lord.

Yeah, I'm getting 50 minutes here as dps. I actually like running LFR Terrace...
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