Post your Frustrations.

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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:08 pm

Nikachelle wrote:
halabar wrote:Frankly, I've never seen the value of applications in the game for most guilds. Much greater value in an armory inspection and a trial run with the alt team. A verbal interview would be a lot better as well.

Yeah but most people nowadays don't even want to get invited to your guild - they want invites through the calendar! I find it really weird that I have to explain to people that I expect them to leave their current guild to join mine if they want a raiding spot.


Eh.. this might be the new trend. More "free agent" raiding. Might actually be looking to form up a raid like this if my current raid team implodes. My guild is great, the raid team, not as much.

You might be missing out on some great raiders by sticking to the "you must be one of us".
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:18 pm

I could be. But I'd like to have my guild excel at kills. Not a raiding collective.

Plus we use dkp, which is not particularly fun to run with pugs.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby benebarba » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:28 pm

halabar wrote:
Nikachelle wrote:
halabar wrote:Frankly, I've never seen the value of applications in the game for most guilds. Much greater value in an armory inspection and a trial run with the alt team. A verbal interview would be a lot better as well.

Yeah but most people nowadays don't even want to get invited to your guild - they want invites through the calendar! I find it really weird that I have to explain to people that I expect them to leave their current guild to join mine if they want a raiding spot.


Eh.. this might be the new trend. More "free agent" raiding. Might actually be looking to form up a raid like this if my current raid team implodes. My guild is great, the raid team, not as much.

You might be missing out on some great raiders by sticking to the "you must be one of us".


I've been on the other side of this, for 2 guilds now. One in cata, and one at the moment while my main guild gets rolling again (or we end up joining up with a friendly guild to get a team together)

How it goes down is this: guild has an attendance/numbers problem, and doesn't really care about guild achievements, so RL decides to invite some friends from other guilds to come along or grabs a couple of PUGs from trade(I've been both). Note, however, that this doesn't always meean once-and-done raiding, or farming. This was progression, the core hadn't cleared any of it. Those PUGs that the RL actually wanted back got asked if they wanted to come again, and if they did, if they could come regularly.

It got to the point that I wasn't a PUG anymore: I was their tank. I just wasn't a guildie. I brought mats, dropped feasts, jeeves, etc. Only downside was I didn't get to use guild repairs ;)
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Shoju » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:00 pm

I was/am a believer in the idea that if you don't want to be a part of my guild, I don't necessarily want you to be a part of my raid.

If you only wanted to hang with me during a raid, it would make me feel like you only want to hang with me for the purpz. And if you only want to hang with me for the purpz, I don't necessarily want to hang with you. It's one of the things that I loved about <lurkers> for a very long time. It's not a raiding guild. It's a social guild, built primarily of people from the forums, and populated with people we thought would be a good addition. Sometimes, it held true. Other times, not so much.

It's probably the biggest reason why when I looked for other guilds, none of them suited what I was looking for. There wasn't the same type of social interaction. I'd put an alt in the guild to check it out, and there just wasn't much talk in Guild Chat, there weren't people looking to just hang, doing whatever. It was raid stuff, and then do your own thing.

Even towards the end of my play time, when I was primarily raiding or soloing, I'd still chat, I'd still talk, I'd still go run something with someone if they wanted to, I'd even include people in my runs if they really wanted to, and it wasn't some boss that I was trying to get down completely solo.

Even now, the only thing I miss is the social part of the guild. I don't miss the raiding. I don't miss the soloing (that much). I miss hanging with people and chatting.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:06 pm

Shoju wrote:I was/am a believer in the idea that if you don't want to be a part of my guild, I don't necessarily want you to be a part of my raid.

If you only wanted to hang with me during a raid, it would make me feel like you only want to hang with me for the purpz. And if you only want to hang with me for the purpz, I don't necessarily want to hang with you. It's one of the things that I loved about <lurkers> for a very long time. It's not a raiding guild. It's a social guild, built primarily of people from the forums, and populated with people we thought would be a good addition. Sometimes, it held true. Other times, not so much.

It's probably the biggest reason why when I looked for other guilds, none of them suited what I was looking for. There wasn't the same type of social interaction. I'd put an alt in the guild to check it out, and there just wasn't much talk in Guild Chat, there weren't people looking to just hang, doing whatever. It was raid stuff, and then do your own thing.

Even towards the end of my play time, when I was primarily raiding or soloing, I'd still chat, I'd still talk, I'd still go run something with someone if they wanted to, I'd even include people in my runs if they really wanted to, and it wasn't some boss that I was trying to get down completely solo.

Even now, the only thing I miss is the social part of the guild. I don't miss the raiding. I don't miss the soloing (that much). I miss hanging with people and chatting.


Well, the flip side is you can get locked into a bad raid situation, or get forced into a guild you don't like just to raid.

Free agent raiding has it's advantages.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Teranoid » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:26 pm

I'm interested to hear how one gets "forced into a guild they don't like just to raid".
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby djlar » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:32 pm

Guild attendance issue, plus 3 core raiders leave the guild because we weren't progressing at all, in fact we regressed .

We were 6/6 normal MSV + 3/6 HoF, this week it was 5/6 MSV and 2/6 HoF.

So I'm staying here to show my support and maybe get some new good raiders, current fill-ups screwed really bad on Garalon stepping into the purple circle on almost every attempt..
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby benebarba » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:12 pm

Shoju wrote:I was/am a believer in the idea that if you don't want to be a part of my guild, I don't necessarily want you to be a part of my raid.

If you only wanted to hang with me during a raid, it would make me feel like you only want to hang with me for the purpz. And if you only want to hang with me for the purpz, I don't necessarily want to hang with you. It's one of the things that I loved about <lurkers> for a very long time. It's not a raiding guild. It's a social guild, built primarily of people from the forums, and populated with people we thought would be a good addition. Sometimes, it held true. Other times, not so much.


I didn't mean to imply that I *wouldn't* join the guilds I tank(ed) for as a 'PUG', nor that I was some silent tank-bot there waiting for loot to drop. I BS'd with the raid, run stuff with them outside the raid, and more than anything what I wanted was to get a bit of experience and I happened to enjoy the group. From the RL's perspective, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they aren't just keeping me around for my amazing tanking prowess. (nope, couldn't keep a straight face :P). Heck, in the other groups I did this stuff for, I *still* chat randomly with some of the members even though that guild has long since gone inactive.

For me, at the moment, why I wouldn't hop guilds at the moment is because 1) I expect we will raid eventually 2) I was asked to take over MT duties and assist the RL & GM to keep the group going (with mixed results) 3) the host RL I run with knows the situation, and knows that I'm there to tank for them as long as I am able and they will have me.

So for me, if someone brought up the issue of 'just being there for the purpz' as though they carried me to them, I'd bring up the hours I spent wiping with them, the fact I paid my own repair bill, the fact that I bring my own mats, dropped repair bots, helped summon raiders, and do pretty much exactly the same thing as any other of their guild raiders sans talking in their text guild chat and having the same letters under my name. I'd then also never tank for them again. Thankfully I doubt that will be an issue.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby bldavis » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:34 pm

as far as pugs being part of the guild..well both the guilds i am in are more social guilds
yes, i would prefer to have everyone on our guild, but sometimes that isnt possible

and sometimes those pugs bring someone to the guild
T11 we were faced with a healer shortage. pugged a healadin, he liked us, we liked him, and he raided with us as a PKer for T12 and T13, and so far has been to 50% of the raids we have done in MoP (yay 1/2)
he isnt the best mage ever, but he makes us laugh, is part of the conversations, and is even one of the runniing guild jokes (gnome tainted lobster...yum yum)
we never said (afair) you have to join us or you cant raid with us. we asked if he would like to join...but never had the ultimatum.

there are times i wish i could be part of a slightly more hardcore raiding team, but honestly, i would never be happy because i wouldnt have the friendships and that i have now.
i raid with friends, for fun. yes i can be hardcore at times..but that is just part of me.
if we get along, i would love to get a pug to join us, but not for the raid team
it is so we can chat with the entire guild while we arent raiding. that is what a guild is for me.
a group of people that like to chat and sometimes kill raid bosses by throwing enough corpses at it til it slips and falls, hitting its head on the floor
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nordix » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:30 am

Jabari wrote:@Nordix:
Did you get (or even roll on) any loot from the raid after you had your other-guild interview set up?


No,I'm not a robber.

Lastwolf wrote:As a sort-of RL it's really hard not to take it personal when people leave, especially when it's over the speed of progress, it's usually good players that end up leaving because of that, it's just a major set back.


Good people are hard to replace and it's basically throwing a spanner in the works, he's prolly just butt hurt, I'd send him a in game mail or something, explaining concisely that for while you thought about it (leaving) and you changed your mind, not that you didn't get accepted elsewhere.

If he continues to be a dick, you'll just have to weather the storm or maybe see if you can reapply


Well,I tried explaining to him and he was freaking out like a 5 year old.I'm trying to weather the storm now,some guildies are even defending me maybe,but it's a shame he does NOT understand anyone else's point of view -even after being in a really good guild himself. Thankfully things span up,and while this tier our world position will be sucky,next tier -if we're stil alive - we can get back to our former "glory" of world 200.

Mannstein wrote:Well to be honest i would be an even greater dick... Only time as a GM i was aware of a player applying to another guild I setup the 25 men raid... get him in, saved and i ask him:
RL(me): Hey i heard you apply to the "new guild"!?
Raider: yes
RL (me): Well, good luck then.
Raider has left the raid (Kicked)
Raider has left the guild (Kicked)

Didn't you warn you were applying to another guild?.... i cannot agree with that.


I did make indications,tho not a direct admittance ever to him,only my friends knew.Kept hinting these breadcrumbs for him for about a week before I applied. My number one prio is progression rate in a guild,if it falls behind and I can't see anything being done to fix it [Explanation: This new guild does not have an officer board anymore,everyone is equal now,even in rankname.And he was a raidlogger,so not online during day much.Being on a halfdead server didnt help either] then I consider leaving/switching.
If you would've done that ,you would hurt yourself a lot too - just as my current GM does.This "play" is like a sword with two blades.

@Teranoid: I'm really sorry but I cannot take you seriously,you're just really pretentious and misunderstanding.

Halabar wrote:However... you also have to be prepared for the consequences. Don't expect people to be happy with you.

I know,but on the level he was raiding /we were raiding you can't be a kid who is butthurt,you have to understand the consequences yourself.Like I explained in a post above ,if you dont do anything to fix the situation, your raiders WILL Leave,because we're in for the progression mainly and THEN the atmosphere,not the other way around or not to boost people/teach them the ropes.

@Treckie: Sums it up,except I still didn't want to break the game for a few by leaving.

djlar wrote:Guild attendance issue, plus 3 core raiders leave the guild because we weren't progressing at all, in fact we regressed .

We were 6/6 normal MSV + 3/6 HoF, this week it was 5/6 MSV and 2/6 HoF.

So I'm staying here to show my support and maybe get some new good raiders, current fill-ups screwed really bad on Garalon stepping into the purple circle on almost every attempt..


Would you feel better if you were told?
Did you expect this?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby benebarba » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:17 am

Who's got two thumbs and is at work on the weekend?

<-- this guy.

Also, some of the build engineers want to throttle the person who does the scheduling for spreading the test builds out over the entire shift *this time* for some reason. Every other time it's been sequential, making it way easier to anticipate (for us and the assemblers, since we can just say basically 'the next 5 are going to use the special parts in that bin there') and monitor progress.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby halabar » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:05 am

Nordix wrote:... you can't be a kid who is butthurt...


Far too many of them are. And far too many are put in leadership roles without any skills.
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fetzie » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:33 am

Christmas songs that still make it into the charts 40 years after being released. Surely everybody already has at least one copy by now?
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Nooska » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:38 am

What are you specificlaly thinking of? Wham!?
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Re: Post your Frustrations.

Postby Fetzie » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:43 am

Wham, Slade, Shaking Stevens, Wizzard, Band Aid, The Pogues, think Paul McCartney did one too.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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