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Postby Ana » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:08 pm

I'm kinda bored with the prot paladin, yeah its great holding aggro, but the fact that it takes 5 minutes+ to kill anything while trying to quest has made the toon immeasurably boring to play.
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Postby Vanifae » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:10 pm

Ana wrote:I'm kinda bored with the prot paladin, yeah its great holding aggro, but the fact that it takes 5 minutes+ to kill anything while trying to quest has made the toon immeasurably boring to play.

AoE tanking what what?
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:11 pm

Warrender wrote:Isn't it Warlocks and Priests?

The only reason this is burned into my mind is that the curse of Warlock tokens never dropping has carried over from T5 to T6 in my guild. :cry:


Yes, it's warlocks and priests, which makes it even worse.

We often have 10-11 Pally/Priest/Lock in our raid :P
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Postby Aalryn » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:12 pm

Ana wrote:I'm kinda bored with the prot paladin, yeah its great holding aggro, but the fact that it takes 5 minutes+ to kill anything while trying to quest has made the toon immeasurably boring to play.


Your a blood elf, get a ret gearset. Even with my prot spec and Seal of blood i'm getting 4k crits on single mobs. I blow through quests.
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Postby Kitria » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:19 pm

We lost one of our best warrior tanks, and one of my best in-game friends. Real life obligations suck.
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Postby Oriax » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:44 am

I'm the only prot pally in my guild. I joined due to the lack of pve-guilds on the server and they specifically looked for a tankadin. However after joining I can't help but feel 98% of the times that I'm just tagging along for gimmick-pulls/fights. (We're in TK atm, working on Al'ar last week and finaly got him, moving to SSC this Sunday where they have 3 kills).

Other than that I'll guess the acceptance of a fully worth "tank" isn't likely to happen, but more "good sometimes, but more a dude in the wrong place since pallies aren't comparable to 'real' tanks and never will be". And that sucks. I've worked my gear out by myself and with help from this forum. I don't whine like the others lacking stuff from Kara, I started doing ZA instead and heroics, getting Badge-gear.
Atm I'm evenly, if not abit better geared than the other tanks. Still every trash pull they mark up, and the warr's tank. "Oriax you take one if a sheep breaks or tank dies..".

We recently picked up ~15+ people from another guild, so we could finally go 25-mans again, alot of old people stopped playing during Christmas and never came back.

Still, with all of them in tryout-status, they're still going in above me in every fight. Every VR-kill it's the same issue, last 2 kills I've said when not mentioned who's tanking, "I'm gonna tank anyway, I do worse dps than a warr ..", to which I get a thoughtful "hmm ok, Oriax is gonna 'try to tank' aswell so heals on him too..."

Which I didn't get last time so during 15 sec of holding VR I got 2x 1,3k FoL and died eventually, dipping to ~5k hp in the last 5+ secs and still no heal. Kinda hard to make an impression if people always forget that I'm tanking, and with what seems to be a very limited interest/way of really knowing what I'm capable of, and what I wear they just brush it off with "well, wth does he want to tank for when he dies in 15 sec..".
And I'm back to square one, nagging everytime to have something to do.

I've considered leaving the guild several times, I'm not into straining myself for people that don't appreciate it, or really see how much I can, and DO contribute.
Ofc when we're going ZA I'm more "accepted/wanted" somewhat atleast. Just that 25-mans I should perhaps don't expect much more but it's still pissing me off kinda.

Ok, other than that whine-part which could go in the other thread, I must say alot of people have started alt-pallies, or voiced an interest in getting tank-loot whilst still being Holy. Which is kinda cool I guess and atleast gives me some sort of appreciation.

Still feels like I have a long road to walk at most times, if only I hadn't liked playing tankadin so much =)
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Postby Oriax » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:44 am

delete this, dbl-post
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Postby Ilara » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:00 am

Oriax wrote:snip


Good to know I'm not the only one having to force myself into the attention of the "leaders" when I could not only meet requirements and expectations, but totally smash them.

starting to feel like a broken record every raid...
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Postby Retcon » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:08 am

Oriax wrote:I'm an under-appreciated Paladin


/comfort
Don't worry, they just haven't really been forced into a situation where they can truly appreciate Paladin tanking (we really begin to shine in Hyjal, where having a prot paladin on board is virtually a _necessity_ rather than a gimmick). I wouldn't advocate this, but I wouldn't blame you using that guild to get attuned to MH/BT and bailing to a more progressed server where some guilds may be more appreciative of your unique capabilities.

Sidebar: I too can sympathize with the not-getting-heals syndrome. I'm routinely tanking 6+ mobs on Hyjal trash pulls and healers forget about me all the damn time, even though I'm one of three main tanks (and speaking from my alter-ego as a raid healer, I know it's not hard to keep an eye on three health bars). I honestly think that we are somewhat cursed in that we have a mana bar -- healers are so conditioned to paying special attention to people with red rage bars (warriors and ferals) that it's easy to overlook a Paladin sometimes.



Anyway, on to the real reason I came to this thread ... TO VENT!
I'm now cruising into the close of my tenth day as a tankadin, and while I've made some small but very important strides towards improving my gear, I getting stymied at every turn, it seems (for those of you who are familiar with my other threads, I had to transition from full-time holy to focusing a large part of my time on prot on extremely short notice.

Drops are not cooperating with me, _at all_. I'm sure that this is a popular ranting topic, but I just have no luck. We did the first half of BT early this week entirely for the purpose of attempting to get me drops (boots off Naj'entus, shoulders off Supremus, legs from Akama, gloves off Teron, belt from Gurtogg, shield from trash mobs), and absolutely failed. Similarly, the hammer from Hyjal trash eludes me, as well as the shield from Kaz (although that goes to our MT first).

It's not a complete loss, I did pick up the bracers from Akama last week (ironically, the day our protadin got banned), and I've gotten the cloak from Hyjal trash.

The bad luck continues. I've been running ZA every reset, getting to the timed loots where there's the rings, and full clears every time. I've run Kara twice.

No chest off Nightbane.
No chest off Zul'jin.
No ring from ZA timed loot.
No boots from Nalorakk.
No mace from Akil'zon.
No shield from Jan'alai.
No legs from Curator.

I know that I can eventually get the legs/chest from heroic badges, but even counting my orgy of ZA/kara recently, I'm only up to 51 badges, putting me a solid Kara run away from either upgrade. I also know that it's highly unlikely that I'll see any particular drop on a given week, but it's just so frustrating that I _really_ need it now, and I never see it, although a month ago I would have seen all this stuff (and always gladly give it to a warrior who was actually _tanking_ the Kara, back in my old guild).

With a bit of luck, I can convince my guild leader to throw us back into Hyjal for Az on Sunday, as I know I'll get the chestplate (MT doesn't want) or glove token (the officers will agree it's an important upgrade), as well as chances at the mace. I worry that we'll get him down, and he'll drop stupid things like rogue and hunter loot.

GRKJL:JKSL:RGJKSLJGKLS:

/rant
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Postby Amirya » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:32 am

eia wrote:I have a very simple solution for that kind of behaviour.
"If you pull it, you tank it"

The people I run with either learn after a couple of deaths, or just laugh at it. ;)


:( I tried that solution, but then it makes me feel like I'm a bad tank, and I'm working so hard to get a rep as a GOOD tank. It's bad enough I get bitched at about Salv by some people.

Onward.

I have this List of things I want to make myself be the best tank I can. On this List includes some things from Heroics. I will do Heroics. After I've gotten my List gear from the non-Heroics.

I am >< this close to leaving my guild. I am co-guildmaster, but the guildmaster's girlfriend apparently thinks I am her personal tank.

Don't get me wrong. I like the girlfriend just fine (she's also a co-guildmaster; we three run the guild). I really do. But I've had MANY people tell me they don't like her/won't run with her/etc (you missed the doozy in party chat the other day when she asked me in whispers to leave my group on an Arc run to go tank Mech for her).

Today...I was in a group to go tank Black Morass for my regular shadow priest; that's all she needed to finish her Kara attunement. I am asked to go tank heroic Slave Pens (mind you, I just hit 70 last Tuesday. And she hit 70...day before yesterday).

I said no, I don't have the gear for it yet. She points out that she's undergeared for it as well, but if I don't go to them, I won't ever get the gear.

My response was something like, "I am content with the pace at which I am moving through instances. I have gear I want to get from non-heroics. I WILL do heroics, but not until I am comfortable in it. I have spoken to several close friends about it (all tanks and/or paladins), and they agree with me."

I currently have over 11k health unbuffed, def of 474, and spell damage of about 210. I want to get my def up a little more before trying heroics. I want to go into heroics with a group I know can handle it, and sadly, that doesn't include undergeared and impatient casters.

I just don't think she realises that undergeared DPS isn't an extremely huge deal breaker (IMO) because it just takes a little longer to burn the mobs down. But an undergeared tank? Party wipe.

/cast Bang Head on Desk and Cry

(Note: She quit talking to me after that reply. But I am sooooo close to leaving, and I don't want to. I like the guild overall...but it's an RP guild and the guildmaster's stance is, "let people spec how they want." All well and good, but when it comes to end-game raiding and whatnot, I don't see that as being very viable.)
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Postby Dunemas » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:01 am

I was outbid (well, outrolled) on the caster mace from Akil'zon by an ele shammy. Normally this wouldn't bother me, but my threat is beginning to suck because I'm tanking TK and SSC with only about 210 total SD and a crystalforged sword. Short of pvping to get the gladiator caster mace, I'm stuck trying to get Amani Punisher - my guild isn't anywhere near BT, so no trash mace for me.

When I tried to explain that only pulling off 500TPS when not MTing (my current average OT record) is terrible, makes soaking for gruul a chore and my weapon selection is fairly limited, the shaman got all indignant and tried to blame me for it. Needless to say I was fairly pissed. Our DPS and warriors are starting to outstrip me despite perfecting spell rotation and judging crusader - an extra ~100 SD would be that much better for me. Sadly, he whines and we ended up having to roll (despite me mentioning that the mace would be a huge upgrade for me at the start of the raid) and he wins.

Off to PvP, I guess. Maybe I can run Warsong flags and tank Drek'thar for 24k honor.

Combine that with lack of time and motivation for doing heroics for solid badge gear (I'm still wearing Timewarden's leggings since Curator never drops Wrynn Dynasty) lack of solid farming ability (supplicants are nice, but nothing compares to ripping through void ridge or Oshu'gun and coming out with 7-8 primals per hour) and overall lack of respect for prot pallies lingering in the corners of the game, and it's easy to understand why I'd rather be ret.

Of course, ret is a whole new complaint post.
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Postby Ilara » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:56 am

I come before the thread again needing to vent frustrations of being the backup.

I have strived to make Ilara the best she possibly can be. I have spent thousands of gold on gear upgrades, fixes, resist sets, and more.
A huge amount of time proving again and again that I can do the job just as well, if not better than any warrior or druid tank.
I've been online and bent over backwards to help the guild when warriors or druids have been offline dancing about.


And I'm now the one
sitting in shattrath
while they go off to play in a raid. to kill Vashj.
And get thier vials for Hyjal.

I'm sick to god damn death of having my usefulness end as soon as the AoE packs on boss fight XX are dead.

I did my dash of healing, ZG to Naxx pre-BC content. Two years of it. Swore I would never be a healer again. Rolled a class with promising ability to tank. I aimed to be the best. a unique class, rare sure but very capable of fulfilling the goal I had in mind.


I'm fed up with being the spare, being the extra, being understudy for some warrior bastard who gets the job purely for the fact he can spec a few points onto his prot tree.

I come to this page, these forums, and I see stories of paladins who do all the things I want to. Chicktankadin prolly triggered this in my head as well, and comes as a clear example of what I truly envy.

To those of you who hold such a position, who do such things, who get the respect.
I salute you.
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Postby Retcon » Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:53 am

Ilara wrote:And I'm now the one
sitting in shattrath
while they go off to play in a raid. to kill Vashj.
And get thier vials for Hyjal.


Joke'll be on them if they attune a full raid to Hyjal and leave you in Shattrath, then go into Hyjal and realise how badly they need a protadin.

Seriously. Hyjal basically REQUIRES a prot paladin.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:18 am

Retcon wrote:
Ilara wrote:And I'm now the one
sitting in shattrath
while they go off to play in a raid. to kill Vashj.
And get thier vials for Hyjal.


Joke'll be on them if they attune a full raid to Hyjal and leave you in Shattrath, then go into Hyjal and realise how badly they need a protadin.

Seriously. Hyjal basically REQUIRES a prot paladin.
Worldi said once and from what I saw it only starts on that level: Hyjal without a tankadin is like castration with hot metal.
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Postby Io.Draco » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:32 am

Snake-Aes wrote:Worldi said once and from what I saw it only starts on that level: Hyjal without a tankadin is like castration with hot metal.


I actualy joined a guild where after entering hyja they thoughtl that protection paladins are usless , even for the trash
Didn't matter that I made trash ALOT easier , neah they took 2 warriors and a druid for tanking

and they I left

if your guild isn't consindering you a tank then just leave doesn't matter if its the best on the server , cause you will NOT see black temple , maybe hyjal once in a while but thats it

I made that mistake don't do it yourself :P
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Postby Beltaine » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:26 am

So, I've been running whatever instances I can get a group for because I need prekara gear from all over the place.

After spending nearly an hour LFG (Medivh server has lots of tanks and no healers it seems) I finally get a tell from a group needing a tank for Steamvaults.

"Sweet, another shot at a devilshark cape, plus I need more CE rep"

So we meet at the stone, and the group leader goes afk with no warning. Few minutes later, logs out, again no warning. In passing, I notice the whole rest of the group is all in the same guild. We start with just 4, I'm assuming the group leader will be back, so no big deal. We get around a little ways and then I see the rest of the group dive off into the water and take out the key fragment guardian.

I start marking for the next pull and I see:

"Didn't <nowloggedoutgroupeleader> tell you we were just getting the key frag?"

"Uh... no"

"Oh, well, we can do the first boss if you want"

Wow, don't do me any favors. I Drop group and get my ghetto hearth back to Shattrath.

Jackasses.

Anybody else experienced crap like this?
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Postby Cynnammon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:15 am

Busted through reg Mech with a pug two days ago, plus hoping the jade-skull breastplate will drop for me and the piece of assassination gear for my boyfriend. Skipped the second boss to hit up the third, then right as we were going back to the second boss...mage opened up a portal to shat and the healer and mage jumped.

whispered both...healer said that he was willing to help me anytime i needed it...and then he logged. mage never responded.

found another healer and dps through reliable pug friends...and the breastplate didn't drop.

went back in on heroic yesterday for the daily. previously mentioned healer came on his lock, pugged an amazing healer, then had guildies in the run as well. in the middle of the gauntlet event, lock said he had to go...and proceeded to stand there while we were trying to kill the last group of 4. ended up in a wipe, he died as well. booted him from the group, healer grabbed somebody from their guild, and we proceeded to make short work of the rest of the run. no drops :roll:

ugh. 6 badges closer, though i will likely never run with that person again. it was like pulling teeth to have him cast mark of the wild as a druid healer, and he refused to open a soulwell or SS the healer on his lock.
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Postby Lakirby » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:46 pm

9 wipes on Leo tonight before our DPS learns that they need to control their aggro... :<
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Postby Alostrael » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:23 am

Speed leveling and gearing a prot pally for the guild since we had like 1 tank. Getting T5 gloves first based on the "tanks first" rule of progression gearing. Now being accused of causing drama.

I get a little upset when warriors try to tell me how to tank even though they have no idea how paladins work... and a little more upset when I'm expected to generate as much threat on a character thats been 70 for a little over a month and isn't completely geared as someone thats been tanking for 3 years.
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Postby Ilara » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:40 am

A bad run on al'ar, All other tanks down in phase two, dps are managing to balance the adds at this point though.

Suddenly I get armor debuff, all heals are being thrown to me.

I eventually fall 3 seconds before debuff falls off me (though boy was it a fun run) and Al'ar cleans up whats left of the raid. 3% wipe. If I had bought time for them to get one more add would have done it.



>.> then I realize I could have bubbled out of the debuff while Al'ar was doing his meteor and been the hero of the raid solo tanking him from 25% - 0...
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Postby eia » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:53 am

Lakirby wrote:9 wipes on Leo tonight before our DPS learns that they need to control their aggro... :<


I hear you.. partly I blame myself for this.. I've been pumping out AS+JoV+Consecration every time I pick him up, so now it feels like they hardly stop nuking, since they trust I will pick him up. One resist though...
Guess I could take it as an acceptance and trust in my threat gen, but it is still hard on my stress levels. >.<
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Postby Lakirby » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:47 am

Leo is the only fight I feel physically tired after tanking. Stresses the crap out of me.

/prays we down Vashj tonight so we can have a TK week next week
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:10 am

Lakirby wrote:Leo is the only fight I feel physically tired after tanking. Stresses the crap out of me.

/prays we down Vashj tonight so we can have a TK week next week

Just wait until you get to bloodboil...
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Postby Lakirby » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 am

Bah, that's a long way off... Maybe by then T5-dropping bosses will get rid of their 2x defender addiction >.>
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Postby Worldie » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:14 am

I think that our t6 dropping bosses stopped the "protector" series yesterday with conqueror from Council.

From t5 we always and i mean always had at least 1 defender. Quite frustrating since some of our shamans and paladins still have blue items <.<
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