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Postby Erendis » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:25 pm

I love my guild and all the people in it but...

We have Kara on farm currently (I know not a bif deal to a lot of people but big for us) and basically we're stuck on what to do next. We really need to get into 25 man content but we only have about 15 dedicated raiders. Which is 10 too few for 25 mans and 5 too many for Kara or ZA. Its just one of those situations where we need to figure what we want to do as a guild but no one seems to want to answer that question.
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Postby halabar » Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:18 pm

I'm sick of finding one of two things in pugs for heroics:

1) Noobs who barely have any blues, but have the honored key

or...

2) Jackass raiders decked in purples who are farming badges whom I have no hope of holding aggro against. Last one the healer had over 2000 healing bonus, and was pulling aggro with every heal. Then they split after the first 5 min, which means I wasted 2 hours in lfg.

(and I'm at 12k health, 14k armour, 485 def, and using the S1 gavel...)

Perhaps it is time to go Ret and pvp
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Postby Arcand » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:30 pm

halabar wrote:2) Jackass raiders decked in purples who are farming badges whom I have no hope of holding aggro against


You'd think you'd occasionally get a group like this where they'd say, "Let's show off our mightiness by destroying this instance as efficiently as possible", but instead I always seem to get "Let's show off our mightiness by showing how badly we can play and still barely survive".
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Postby Fedaykin98 » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:48 pm

Frickin' Maiden still being stingy to me...I want those drops! :evil:
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Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:16 pm

Personal rant: No conqueror, AGAIN, for 7 weeks now.........




Stupid RNG.
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Postby fiorina » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:22 pm

halabar wrote: Last one the healer had over 2000 healing bonus, and was pulling aggro with every heal. Then they split after the first 5 min, which means I wasted 2 hours in lfg.

(and I'm at 12k health, 14k armour, 485 def, and using the S1 gavel...)

Perhaps it is time to go Ret and pvp


Overheal is not producing any extra threat, so it will be same story with Blue decked healer...

When DPS overaggro it is their fault. Healer overaggroing is your fault, there was lack of CC maybe so incoming damage was bigger than threat from healing needed.
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Postby Morpheum » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:19 am

Healing aggro does not happen with me, ever, and it never did even when I was starting out.

I seriously have no idea how you are letting a healer get aggro.
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Postby Lakirby » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:45 am

The next boss that drops double Defender for us gets a punch in the nads. We haven't seen a Champion token from any T4 or T5-dropping boss in 3 weeks.
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Postby berbo2 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:00 am

Healing aggro does not happen with me, ever, and it never did even when I was starting out.

I seriously have no idea how you are letting a healer get aggro.


Overgeared holy Priest - Mind Blast;
Overgeared restoration Druid - Moonfire;
Overgeared Shaman - Flame/Earth SHock;
Overgeared Paladin - Holy Shock.

Those guys are quite sure they can heal barely everything that may come to your head so they allow themselves to "have fun".
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Postby Vesper » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:02 am

Robbo wrote:I'm tired of my GM's switching melee dps out on fights like Prince and Curator because "Its too hard for melee right now, when our ranged is geared enough, they can come"

Give the rogues/warriors a chance man.

=\


That's insane. As a feral on Prince, even with all the running in and out, I was able to outdps most of our ranged consistently. Good rogues, of course, can beat the pants off me. Rip/rupture is your friend (and staying low on aggro so you don't actually have to run in and out).

Ditto Curator, in spite of the bleed immunity. Leave one or two decent dps classes on Curator the entire fight, and it becomes trivial. Melee dps can function in this capacity much more efficiently than most casters.
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Postby Invisusira » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:11 am

wtf? Melee is AWESOME for curator, they're great for intercepting fuzzy sparks. We have all the range/healers in the same corner and melee stands between them and curator. Works great, no "who's got the spark" lotto.
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Postby Robbo » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:25 am

Thank you.

Last night they made the rogue who was with us on prince throw knives for the first phase.
-_-

Oh well, they'll learn I hope.
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Postby Eanaddare » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:43 pm

Our T6 tokens are shared by two other popular classes (mage and priests)...

Together that's 40+% of the raid competing the same token...

To make it worse, last 3 weeks have been no such token dropping for us, WTF!

Oh yes and I r sitting out for archy, GG!
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Postby Warrender » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:50 pm

Eanaddare wrote:Our T6 tokens are shared by two other popular classes (mage and priests)...


Isn't it Warlocks and Priests?

The only reason this is burned into my mind is that the curse of Warlock tokens never dropping has carried over from T5 to T6 in my guild. :cry:
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Postby guillex » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:55 pm

Tokens of the Forgotten Conqueror: Paladin, Priest, Warlock
Tokens of the Forgotten Protector: Warrior, Hunter, Shaman
Tokens of the Forgotten Vanquisher: Rogue, Mage, Druid
Póg mo thóin
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Postby Ana » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:08 pm

I'm kinda bored with the prot paladin, yeah its great holding aggro, but the fact that it takes 5 minutes+ to kill anything while trying to quest has made the toon immeasurably boring to play.
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Postby Vanifae » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:10 pm

Ana wrote:I'm kinda bored with the prot paladin, yeah its great holding aggro, but the fact that it takes 5 minutes+ to kill anything while trying to quest has made the toon immeasurably boring to play.

AoE tanking what what?
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:11 pm

Warrender wrote:Isn't it Warlocks and Priests?

The only reason this is burned into my mind is that the curse of Warlock tokens never dropping has carried over from T5 to T6 in my guild. :cry:


Yes, it's warlocks and priests, which makes it even worse.

We often have 10-11 Pally/Priest/Lock in our raid :P
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Postby Aalryn » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:12 pm

Ana wrote:I'm kinda bored with the prot paladin, yeah its great holding aggro, but the fact that it takes 5 minutes+ to kill anything while trying to quest has made the toon immeasurably boring to play.


Your a blood elf, get a ret gearset. Even with my prot spec and Seal of blood i'm getting 4k crits on single mobs. I blow through quests.
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Postby Kitria » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:19 pm

We lost one of our best warrior tanks, and one of my best in-game friends. Real life obligations suck.
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Postby Oriax » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:44 am

I'm the only prot pally in my guild. I joined due to the lack of pve-guilds on the server and they specifically looked for a tankadin. However after joining I can't help but feel 98% of the times that I'm just tagging along for gimmick-pulls/fights. (We're in TK atm, working on Al'ar last week and finaly got him, moving to SSC this Sunday where they have 3 kills).

Other than that I'll guess the acceptance of a fully worth "tank" isn't likely to happen, but more "good sometimes, but more a dude in the wrong place since pallies aren't comparable to 'real' tanks and never will be". And that sucks. I've worked my gear out by myself and with help from this forum. I don't whine like the others lacking stuff from Kara, I started doing ZA instead and heroics, getting Badge-gear.
Atm I'm evenly, if not abit better geared than the other tanks. Still every trash pull they mark up, and the warr's tank. "Oriax you take one if a sheep breaks or tank dies..".

We recently picked up ~15+ people from another guild, so we could finally go 25-mans again, alot of old people stopped playing during Christmas and never came back.

Still, with all of them in tryout-status, they're still going in above me in every fight. Every VR-kill it's the same issue, last 2 kills I've said when not mentioned who's tanking, "I'm gonna tank anyway, I do worse dps than a warr ..", to which I get a thoughtful "hmm ok, Oriax is gonna 'try to tank' aswell so heals on him too..."

Which I didn't get last time so during 15 sec of holding VR I got 2x 1,3k FoL and died eventually, dipping to ~5k hp in the last 5+ secs and still no heal. Kinda hard to make an impression if people always forget that I'm tanking, and with what seems to be a very limited interest/way of really knowing what I'm capable of, and what I wear they just brush it off with "well, wth does he want to tank for when he dies in 15 sec..".
And I'm back to square one, nagging everytime to have something to do.

I've considered leaving the guild several times, I'm not into straining myself for people that don't appreciate it, or really see how much I can, and DO contribute.
Ofc when we're going ZA I'm more "accepted/wanted" somewhat atleast. Just that 25-mans I should perhaps don't expect much more but it's still pissing me off kinda.

Ok, other than that whine-part which could go in the other thread, I must say alot of people have started alt-pallies, or voiced an interest in getting tank-loot whilst still being Holy. Which is kinda cool I guess and atleast gives me some sort of appreciation.

Still feels like I have a long road to walk at most times, if only I hadn't liked playing tankadin so much =)
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Postby Oriax » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:44 am

delete this, dbl-post
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Postby Ilara » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:00 am

Oriax wrote:snip


Good to know I'm not the only one having to force myself into the attention of the "leaders" when I could not only meet requirements and expectations, but totally smash them.

starting to feel like a broken record every raid...
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Postby Retcon » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:08 am

Oriax wrote:I'm an under-appreciated Paladin


/comfort
Don't worry, they just haven't really been forced into a situation where they can truly appreciate Paladin tanking (we really begin to shine in Hyjal, where having a prot paladin on board is virtually a _necessity_ rather than a gimmick). I wouldn't advocate this, but I wouldn't blame you using that guild to get attuned to MH/BT and bailing to a more progressed server where some guilds may be more appreciative of your unique capabilities.

Sidebar: I too can sympathize with the not-getting-heals syndrome. I'm routinely tanking 6+ mobs on Hyjal trash pulls and healers forget about me all the damn time, even though I'm one of three main tanks (and speaking from my alter-ego as a raid healer, I know it's not hard to keep an eye on three health bars). I honestly think that we are somewhat cursed in that we have a mana bar -- healers are so conditioned to paying special attention to people with red rage bars (warriors and ferals) that it's easy to overlook a Paladin sometimes.



Anyway, on to the real reason I came to this thread ... TO VENT!
I'm now cruising into the close of my tenth day as a tankadin, and while I've made some small but very important strides towards improving my gear, I getting stymied at every turn, it seems (for those of you who are familiar with my other threads, I had to transition from full-time holy to focusing a large part of my time on prot on extremely short notice.

Drops are not cooperating with me, _at all_. I'm sure that this is a popular ranting topic, but I just have no luck. We did the first half of BT early this week entirely for the purpose of attempting to get me drops (boots off Naj'entus, shoulders off Supremus, legs from Akama, gloves off Teron, belt from Gurtogg, shield from trash mobs), and absolutely failed. Similarly, the hammer from Hyjal trash eludes me, as well as the shield from Kaz (although that goes to our MT first).

It's not a complete loss, I did pick up the bracers from Akama last week (ironically, the day our protadin got banned), and I've gotten the cloak from Hyjal trash.

The bad luck continues. I've been running ZA every reset, getting to the timed loots where there's the rings, and full clears every time. I've run Kara twice.

No chest off Nightbane.
No chest off Zul'jin.
No ring from ZA timed loot.
No boots from Nalorakk.
No mace from Akil'zon.
No shield from Jan'alai.
No legs from Curator.

I know that I can eventually get the legs/chest from heroic badges, but even counting my orgy of ZA/kara recently, I'm only up to 51 badges, putting me a solid Kara run away from either upgrade. I also know that it's highly unlikely that I'll see any particular drop on a given week, but it's just so frustrating that I _really_ need it now, and I never see it, although a month ago I would have seen all this stuff (and always gladly give it to a warrior who was actually _tanking_ the Kara, back in my old guild).

With a bit of luck, I can convince my guild leader to throw us back into Hyjal for Az on Sunday, as I know I'll get the chestplate (MT doesn't want) or glove token (the officers will agree it's an important upgrade), as well as chances at the mace. I worry that we'll get him down, and he'll drop stupid things like rogue and hunter loot.

GRKJL:JKSL:RGJKSLJGKLS:

/rant
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Postby Amirya » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:32 am

eia wrote:I have a very simple solution for that kind of behaviour.
"If you pull it, you tank it"

The people I run with either learn after a couple of deaths, or just laugh at it. ;)


:( I tried that solution, but then it makes me feel like I'm a bad tank, and I'm working so hard to get a rep as a GOOD tank. It's bad enough I get bitched at about Salv by some people.

Onward.

I have this List of things I want to make myself be the best tank I can. On this List includes some things from Heroics. I will do Heroics. After I've gotten my List gear from the non-Heroics.

I am >< this close to leaving my guild. I am co-guildmaster, but the guildmaster's girlfriend apparently thinks I am her personal tank.

Don't get me wrong. I like the girlfriend just fine (she's also a co-guildmaster; we three run the guild). I really do. But I've had MANY people tell me they don't like her/won't run with her/etc (you missed the doozy in party chat the other day when she asked me in whispers to leave my group on an Arc run to go tank Mech for her).

Today...I was in a group to go tank Black Morass for my regular shadow priest; that's all she needed to finish her Kara attunement. I am asked to go tank heroic Slave Pens (mind you, I just hit 70 last Tuesday. And she hit 70...day before yesterday).

I said no, I don't have the gear for it yet. She points out that she's undergeared for it as well, but if I don't go to them, I won't ever get the gear.

My response was something like, "I am content with the pace at which I am moving through instances. I have gear I want to get from non-heroics. I WILL do heroics, but not until I am comfortable in it. I have spoken to several close friends about it (all tanks and/or paladins), and they agree with me."

I currently have over 11k health unbuffed, def of 474, and spell damage of about 210. I want to get my def up a little more before trying heroics. I want to go into heroics with a group I know can handle it, and sadly, that doesn't include undergeared and impatient casters.

I just don't think she realises that undergeared DPS isn't an extremely huge deal breaker (IMO) because it just takes a little longer to burn the mobs down. But an undergeared tank? Party wipe.

/cast Bang Head on Desk and Cry

(Note: She quit talking to me after that reply. But I am sooooo close to leaving, and I don't want to. I like the guild overall...but it's an RP guild and the guildmaster's stance is, "let people spec how they want." All well and good, but when it comes to end-game raiding and whatnot, I don't see that as being very viable.)
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