the real deal with weapon expertise?

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the real deal with weapon expertise?

Postby Coldaan » Wed May 23, 2007 1:03 am

Hi guys!

I couldn't find any information about that via the search option here on this forum, so I just thought i'd start a thread to completely reveal the mechanics behind weapon skill / the talent weapon expertise.

so how viable is this talent? on most forums you read that it is close to useless, still I am not really convinced. Of course there are talents that are obviously very strong, and some are not that good, but a talent that is completely useless?

so what does weapon skill (not rating) do?

CM Crezax made a post on the EU forums outlining the effect of weapon skill on higher-level mobs. Note that this refers only to monsters 3 levels higher than the player in PVE.

Let's say you increase your weapon skill by 4.
Against a mob 3 levels higher than you, you get: 0.8% lower chance to miss, 0,4% lower chance to get dodged, 2,4% to be parried, and a 0,8% higher chance to crit."


so are 10 points of weapon skill really that useless?
without doing the math, getting 10 weapon skill would treat you like a lvl 72 character on the attack table, meaning you hit 72 mobs like 70 mobs (if you don't have the talent) and 73 mobs are only 1 effective level above you. true?

now this talent doesn't give you avoidance of any kind, but it should give you more threat if you hit the mob more often. how much additional threat would that be? more than 1H-spec?
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Postby Lev » Wed May 23, 2007 5:55 am

I Think the whole weaponskill thing was like that before 2.0. After the patch it got srewed up a little bit and now only grants you a higher chance to crit a mob... not sure on this, but it was on the notes of that patch.
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Postby Alixander » Wed May 23, 2007 7:22 am

Lev wrote:I Think the whole weaponskill thing was like that before 2.0. After the patch it got srewed up a little bit and now only grants you a higher chance to crit a mob... not sure on this, but it was on the notes of that patch.
The problem is they've never clarified that. In the patch notes all it said was "Weapon skill now adds crit against higher level mobs." They never said "but no longer gives these other effects." so the people who see weapon skill either see it as doing everything it did before and more, or those who see the change as everything it now does.
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Postby Lore » Wed May 23, 2007 7:31 am

Since it doesn't apply to JoR, Consecrate, Exorcism, or Holy Shield, the only potential increase is on your SoR threat (or SoV/SoB). If we assume from the numbers the CM gave (which seem really sketchy) that 1 weapon skill gives:

-0.2% miss
-0.1% dodge
-0.6% parry
+0.2% crit (which doesn't do anything for SoR)

then Weapon Expertise is worth a grand total of -2% miss, -1% dodge, and -6% parry for the purposes of proccing SoR. Total of 9% total increase, which is far less than 5% to everything from 1h spec, and even outshadowed by Imp. SoR in the Holy tree (which is 15% SoR and JoR damage).

Really not worth picking up when there are much better options available.
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Postby Thels » Wed May 23, 2007 8:33 am

But if that's 9% from 5 points, doesn't that basically beat Precision, which is only 3% from 3 points?

The numbers that CM gave were so random. They don't sound right, and don't even match what was in the patch notes. For the moment, I'm just assuming it does what the patch notes said, and thus I'll seay away from it.
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Postby Lore » Wed May 23, 2007 8:38 am

Yeah the info from the CM seems quite wonky.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed May 23, 2007 8:45 am

Here another interesting thread from the elitist jerk forums:

http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.php?t=11885

Preliminary results there suggest that one weapon skill is .15% hit, .04% crit, and .08% dodge reduction or so. Not very impressive, but I'm continuing to watch it unfold.
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Postby Lore » Wed May 23, 2007 8:57 am

Hmm.. that's VERY interesting.

...for my Fury warrior.
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed May 23, 2007 10:49 am

I'd say in the current state of Weapon Skill, it's a better investment point for point than Precision.

Which isn't saying much given the point distribution of the Prot tree.
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Postby Lore » Wed May 23, 2007 11:34 am

Assuming all of this is true, then I'd agree. I'm going to wait a little bit longer for some of the people testing to get some concrete tests in, particularly on the parry mechanic.
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed May 23, 2007 12:53 pm

It acutally adds slightly to mitigation because the mob will parry less, and parry causes that counter attack haste thing. For this patch, I took the 3 points I normally put in precision and put them in WE to see how the numbers come out.
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