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Mana Issues/Tanking

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Postby Kyroro » Thu May 24, 2007 9:49 am

Did a KZ run tonight Attunmen, Morose, Opera and Maiden. I had mana issues throughout the entire run. My gear is pretty good, and healers commented that it was super easy to heal me. That means less mana :(

I did as some ppl suggested and stopped using Holy Shield to take a crush or two (at full health) just to keep the heals up.

My mitigation is as follows:

21.88 dodge
17.60 parry
21.25 block

I don't need the libram to be uncrushable, so I've been using the libram to increase consecrate damage. My threat generation is through the roof, but I run out of mana so fast. It really really sucks.

The warrior in my group commented to me that this is the same issue as warriors who become overgeared for the encounters, that they have to put on DPS pieces so that they can get more rage.

I'll be tanking Curator and Nightbane this weekend, results to follow. I'm currently swapping out Dairi's Enigma for the stamina trinket from KZ, so hopefully Curator won't be as much as a mana problem. Nightbane I will probably put back my full avoidance gear again since it's still on learning status for us.
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Postby Rashadi » Thu May 24, 2007 10:05 am

I tanked KZ last night. My threat was generally 300-400 tps lower than it used to be. I've found I have to blow all my mana to return to the tps I was sustaining before the patch, and I quickly run out of mana while doing so.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#char ... &n=Rashadi

It was especially irritating for Prince, as it is essentially a dps race from start to finish, sitting at 350 tps for all of phase 1 after avenging wrath went down. During phase 2 my holy shield charges started getting used and my threat went up to about 800 tps, and then dipped back down for phase 3.

Im hearing reports of other paladin's threat going through the roof after the patch, but to my own dismay, I cannot achieve the threat levels I was easily hitting pre-patch, and the advantage of high threat no longer seems to be a reason to bring me over a prot warrior who can still hover at 700-800 tps.
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Postby Kathryn » Thu May 24, 2007 10:08 am

Rashadi wrote:Im hearing reports of other paladin's threat going through the roof after the patch, but to my own dismay, I cannot achieve the threat levels I was easily hitting pre-patch, and the advantage of high threat no longer seems to be a reason to bring me over a prot warrior who can still hover at 700-800 tps.


Maybe you aren't consumming enough Imp HS charges by Parry or dodging too much..
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Postby Lore » Thu May 24, 2007 10:10 am

Are you sure you had RF up? >.> I do about 350 DAMAGE per second while tanking.
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Postby Gehrond » Thu May 24, 2007 10:17 am

First off I just want to point out our "big" problem now is "not taking enough damage".

Let that soak in for a minute.

No, wait, let's take 2-3 minutes to bask in that. :P


Kyroro wrote:21.88 dodge
17.60 parry
21.25 block

I don't need the libram to be uncrushable, so I've been using the libram to increase consecrate damage. My threat generation is through the roof, but I run out of mana so fast. It really really sucks.

I really-really-really don't recommend swapping out the trinket. Swap out other dodge/parry/defense gear in favor of block/int/spell damage. This will let you take more damage on average, increase the ratio of blocks to dodge/miss/parry ->more blocks -> more threat from HS. Hell consider using BoSanct if you health is good (mostly on trash or "easy" bosses).

Just don't lose uncrushable status or take a CB on purpose. That can lead to a wipe. Steady, predictable damage >>> spikes, even if it's more overall damage.
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Postby Caerdwynn » Thu May 24, 2007 10:28 am

With the extra avoidance I got in the patch, I swapped out my Protector's Mark of the Redemption for my Ring of the Silver Hand. 18 more int and 5mp5 seems worth the 4 stamina, 6 defense, and 15 block value I'm giving up.

*shrug*
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Postby Rashadi » Thu May 24, 2007 10:45 am

Lore wrote:Are you sure you had RF up? >.> I do about 350 DAMAGE per second while tanking.



Yup. I dunno. I could reach values of over 1000 tps pre-patch on fast hitting single targets with jotc. Rightous Fury was most definately up, and we wiped 3 or 4 times due to bad infernal placement, and I got consistant results everytime:

Pull (Avenging Wrath) 700 tps
1:00: 300-400 tps
2:00: 300-400 tps
3:00: 900-1100 tps (Avenging Wrath)
4:00: 600-800 tps
5:00: 300-400 tps
6:00: 500-600 tps (Avenging Wrath)

At one point our shadow priest pulled aggro, which has never happened on a boss fight before. Perhaps at this point I need to suck it up and put on some more "paladinish" tanking gear with more spell damage.

Heh... Unfortunately I've been farming Kara for close to 3 months, and have never had the tier 4 helm drop, nor has maulgar dropped the shoulders. We're cursed with warrior,druid,priest drops to the point where our guilds main warriors druids and priests are picking up their alternate pieces now. /wrists
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Postby Lore » Thu May 24, 2007 11:05 am

I hear you. But yeah, those numbers seem ridiculously low. With imp HS now, my holy shield is doing about 640 threat every block just on its own >.>

Were you having mana problems? Or were you able to keep JoR/HS/Consecrate/Exorcism on cooldown?
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Postby Rashadi » Thu May 24, 2007 11:27 am

I was having a limited ammount of mana problems. I would have to cruise with holy shield up every few minutes to regain some mana and burn pots when I could, but for the most part I was keeping all skills on cooldown.

I might fraps next weeks kill and post it for you to examine. Cause I hear you on the holy shield threat. I should be holding up a lot more threat than that (and was, pre-patch)

Perhaps if possible Lore, we could compare our two threats against the same mob sometime. Maybe grab a healer and see what our threat is against something like Durn the Hungerer and screenshot where our threat rotation keeps us in terms of typical threat?
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Postby Lore » Thu May 24, 2007 11:49 am

I should be killing prince tonight, I'll make sure to watch my threat output.
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Postby Rashadi » Thu May 24, 2007 11:53 am

Cool. I'm wondering if I need to drop my parry/dodge in place of more shield block at this point. I dont actually like the idea of getting hit more just to keep up holy shield threat however.
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Postby Lore » Thu May 24, 2007 11:56 am

What are your dodge/parry at? I'm sitting at 18 dodge 16 parry completely unbuffed
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Postby Rashadi » Thu May 24, 2007 11:57 am

20 dodge, 17 parry unbuffed, so not much higher. Your shield block rating is substantially higher than mine I noticed, by about 6 or 7% and you have about 60 more spell damage than I do. Perhaps this is whats making the difference?
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Postby Lore » Thu May 24, 2007 12:26 pm

Well the block rating won't matter if we're both uncrushable. 60 spelldamage should come out to about 40-50 threat per second I think, not really a huge difference.
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Postby Kathryn » Thu May 24, 2007 12:28 pm

Rashadi wrote:20 dodge, 17 parry unbuffed, so not much higher. Your shield block rating is substantially higher than mine I noticed, by about 6 or 7% and you have about 60 more spell damage than I do. Perhaps this is whats making the difference?


You dodge more, wich equates to less HS, But Lore Blocks for about 350 wich makes it more viable to dodge less than you would over time since you have lower Block Value.

The 60 spell dmg more is also part of it. All our threat is based off Magic, if you have 200 SD, and he has 260 thats a lil over 25% more stats in the "increase my threat" Department. (not that it increase his threat 25% more than you but still..)

Meaning, there is a reason why we use Sup Wizard Oil. It's not a whole lot of SD but its definatly noticable.
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