Mana Issues/Tanking

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Another Mana/Tanking Question

Postby Sabindeus » Wed May 23, 2007 2:19 pm

DraenorGauss wrote:Maybe I can get away with having +int gear instead of +dodge/parry/block gear in the 5-mans but raids/heroics are a different story?


exactly.

Heroics/raids kill you dead. Looking at what you're saying, and your gear levels, I can safely say that Heroic and Raid mobs do damage the likes of which you've never even seen on a regular basis.
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 10473
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Postby Kyroro » Wed May 23, 2007 2:22 pm

I wouldn't bother with Seal of the Crusader when tanking SH. Assuming you got 490 defense and mainly blue gear, Judge Wisdom, keep up Seal of Wisdom and go nuts on max rank Consecrate. I usually tank this with my spell damage set, 7k mana, 9.8k health and no one can pull aggro off me. You also don't burn your mana due to the Seal of Wisdom/Judge. In fact you'll find yourself not drinking as much.

For the last boss though, you definitely need more avoidance. I switch to my raid set for this guy and he's pretty easy to tank. Keep your front pointed at him at all times (especially during his Blade Dance) and you'll be able to block/parry/dodge most of his stuff.
Kyroro
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 1:34 pm
Location: Draenor-US

Postby Alixander » Wed May 23, 2007 3:31 pm

Here's a thought I had... what if the coefficient for SA was bumped up a bit to compensate for the fact that we are no longer getting mana back from overheals. I would imagine that the current coefficient was based upon tests done while overhealing effected it, and Blizzard did not foresee the power of the combination of Shadow Priest + Holy Paladin w/ SA. What if the coefficient was somewhere between 15-20% of the amount healed was given back to paladins as mana. Would that be enough to fix SA for us?
Alixander
 
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 11:51 am
Location: Berkeley, CA

Postby Synical » Wed May 23, 2007 4:30 pm

Alixander wrote:Here's a thought I had... what if the coefficient for SA was bumped up a bit to compensate for the fact that we are no longer getting mana back from overheals. I would imagine that the current coefficient was based upon tests done while overhealing effected it, and Blizzard did not foresee the power of the combination of Shadow Priest + Holy Paladin w/ SA. What if the coefficient was somewhere between 15-20% of the amount healed was given back to paladins as mana. Would that be enough to fix SA for us?


Or replace 2/2 Imp Holy Shield with Imp SA (+5/10%) and make Holy Shield base what 2/2 Imp Holy Shield gives.

To me SA has seemed like something to keep tankadins on par with the rage generation of warriors and bear druids. I've heard people talk about tying it to Imp Righteous Fury but I think that is too far up in the tree. I would like to see a "commitment" to the Protection tree for an Imp SA. Just an opinion.
Image
Synical
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 4:17 pm

Postby Julian » Wed May 23, 2007 7:20 pm

I'm now using my spiked Sporeggar shield for instance work, rather than a heavy-duty tanking shield.

Seems to work okay, since it both creates threat itself and makes you take more damage.

I also wear some more appropriate gear, like Righteous.

Basically, stick on your heavy AE grinding kit. I use the same set for non-heroic 5-mans that I've been using to grind Demon Hunter Supplicants-- heavy on the +block value and rating, lots of reflected damage.
Julian
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:39 am

hrm

Postby Mavrix » Wed May 23, 2007 9:24 pm

On the 7 bosses we did tonight in Kara, I did have some issues with mana. Pretty much forced to keep wisdom judged at all times and even then it wasn't enough to keep me from having to chug mana pots. The downside of that obviously was not having the option of healing pots at times, but luckily our healers were on top of their game all night. The lack of mana coming in the way it was before is a real and serious problem, esp. the more you gear to take less damage.
If necessity is the mother of invention, laziness must be the father.

Mavrix

Dalaran

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n&n=Mavrix
User avatar
Mavrix
 
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 6:18 pm

Postby Kvaern » Wed May 23, 2007 10:12 pm

I did kara as well and started out great by going OOM 30 secs into the attumen fight...so I deliberatly took some crushes just to get the mana flowing again and did the same on moroes.
This tactic seems to work well, if you go oom due to lack of healed damage then being crushed really shouldnt be much of an issue.

From maiden and beyond I didn't have any mana issues on bosses. I had to drop my TPS on curator considerably not to go oom though but TPS doesn't really matter in that fight .

However, the SA nerf is still pissing me off royally because I have to drink after pretty much every goddamn trash pull.
As a tank I shouldn't be delaying the raid like that, I should be off marking the next set of mobs while the others drink just like a war/druid.

I know it doesn't affect our performance but the psychological factor is there when deciding who should be tanking, the slowass pally or the warrior/druid? take your pick.

Apart from that the patch is great. <3 imp. HS, new ardent defender and no more instant cast bug, not to mention the buffed item avoidance goodies which works wonders for reaching uncrushable while still having a healthy amount of life.
Kvaern
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:45 pm

yeah

Postby Mavrix » Thu May 24, 2007 5:53 am

I agree that the further you get into kara, the less mana is an issue since things hit harder, but the mana issue is still there and there's a whole lotta drinking going on.

I'm starting to see the benefit of reducing avoidance instead of boosting it. The problem that I have with that is that realistically our responsibility should be to decrease the amount of damage we take as much as possible, not try to increase it just to have more mana to produce more threat.

Also, I'd have been totally screwed if we hadn't had a second pally on the raid to give me BoW (or I suppose I'd have just skipped kings and put BoW on myself).
If necessity is the mother of invention, laziness must be the father.

Mavrix

Dalaran

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n&n=Mavrix
User avatar
Mavrix
 
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 6:18 pm

Postby Gehrond » Thu May 24, 2007 6:06 am

This just shows you are over-geared for those first encounters. Taking crushes to get extra healing is risky, just wear more spell damage gear to get more mileage out of your mana. I know I got 1.3% "free" mitigation in the path from gear. That lets me throw on BP of righteous at least.
Gehrond
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 5:37 pm

Postby hamerhead » Thu May 24, 2007 6:38 am

I had the same issue last night is our kara run. I usually am the OT and unless I was getting hit by multiple mobs I just wasnt taking enough dmg to get the heals I needed to keep my mana up and also do some decent dps. On the Huntsman when I was done with Midnight I had only half my mana left and by the end of the fight I was tapped out. I OT after the Huntsman mounts. I am usually 75% mana at the end of this fight.

To make matters worse the Warrior in the group kept pulling when he was rdy and I normally would have been but I was still drinking. We had a steward wipe due to this issue so even though they may have made some of the instances easier it still takes just as long to run becuase of all of our downtime. Oh I almost forgot, no ned for health pots now I will be drinking mana pots to tank most likely now :x

Blizzard needs to make the old SA a protection talent linked to something we use now or let us regen mana from out blocks with the imp Sheild skills. No more additional talent points please


We usually just do the Huntsman and Moroes on one night in a hour to save us the time of clearing all the trash after Moroes which despwns the next day up to the Maidens hall. Saves us quite a bit of time so we can explore farther.
hamerhead
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 6:42 am

Postby Kvaern » Thu May 24, 2007 6:55 am

Gehrond wrote:This just shows you are over-geared for those first encounters. Taking crushes to get extra healing is risky, just wear more spell damage gear to get more mileage out of your mana. I know I got 1.3% "free" mitigation in the path from gear. That lets me throw on BP of righteous at least.


The 23 or however much more spelldamage I'll get from swapping say my jade skull BP out for Righteous BP won't change anything on its own.

Besides having to micromanage gear like that is ridiculous, I don't mind needing a resonable amount of tanking profiles I but having to make one for each boss is over the line.

Also note that my trash profile already has all the spelldamage I can squeeze in without getting auto butchered when I tank > 1 mob.
Kvaern
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:45 pm

Postby Gehrond » Thu May 24, 2007 7:06 am

The 23 or however much more spelldamage I'll get from swapping say my jade skull BP out for Righteous BP won't change anything on its own.

Besides having to micromanage gear like that is ridiculous, I don't mind needing a resonable amount of tanking profiles I but having to make one for each boss is over the line.

Also note that my trash profile already has all the spelldamage I can squeeze in without getting auto butchered when I tank > 1 mob.

It's more int, more spell damage and less mitigation. Not just spell damage. That means a more threat, bigger mana pool and more damage incoming -> SA -> more mana.

I didn't say one fore each boss, don't put words in my mouth... I have 3 profiles I use, and I'm going to add a 4th after the patch changes since I have more room to play around with for CBs.

One for max spell damage, uncrittable. I use this for grinding and 5-mans where I have a good healer.

One for high spell damage, uncrittable, much better overall mitigation. 5-mans with a less geared heaer, and raid trash.

One for max spell damage, uncrushable. I'll use this on easier raid bosses.

One for max mitigation. Hard raid bosses only.

I'd advocate us getting more mana back through SA or some other means, but in the mean time we have to deal with it. Gear for the encounter as you see fit.
Gehrond
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 5:37 pm

Postby Julian » Thu May 24, 2007 7:11 am

hamerhead wrote:Blizzard needs to make the old SA a protection talent linked to something we use now


As an added bonus, this would represent the mythical tanking talent that helps you when you're doing the other half of your hybrid role.

You know, like prot warriors have 1-hand spec, Vitality, Focused Rage, and Devastate, and like feral druids have Heart of the Wild and Survival of the Fittest and whatnot.
Julian
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:39 am

Postby honorshammer » Thu May 24, 2007 7:21 am

Here's an example of what I use at each level.

Please note I'm at the Pre-Heroics teir (revered with 0 factions), you can do even better!

max spell damage, uncrittable
Helm of the Righteous, Mark of the Ravenguard, Kaylaan's' Spaulders, Cloak of Eternity, Lost Chestplate of the Reverent, Sha'tari Wrought Armguards, Spellfire Longsword, Netherwing Defender's Shield, Felsteel Gloves, Lightwarden Girdle, Kirin Var Defender's Chausses, Golden Cenarion Greaves, Protector's Mark of the Redemption, Iron Band of the Unbreakable, Briarwood Reed, Dabiri's Enigma.

high spell damage, uncrittable, much better overall mitigation
Helm of the Righteous becomes Felsteel Helm, Kaylaan's Spaulders becomes Nexus Guard Pauldron's, Protector's Mark becomes Dath'mars Ring of Defense, Kirin Var becomes Legplates of the Resolute Defender, Golden Cenarion becomes Flesh Beat Metal Greaves, Lost Chestplate becomes Breastplate of the Warbringer.

I don't have a max spell damage, uncrushable and max mitigation set yet because I'm still at the Pre-Heroics gear stage.
User avatar
honorshammer
Moderator
 
Posts: 2153
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Charleston, SC

Postby Kvaern » Thu May 24, 2007 8:32 am

Gehrond wrote:I didn't say one fore each boss, don't put words in my mouth... I have 3 profiles I use, and I'm going to add a 4th after the patch changes since I have more room to play around with for CBs.


My pun wasn't aimed at you but at blizzard, I realize you're just trying to get the best out of what you got.
Kvaern
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:45 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest