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Mana Issues/Tanking

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Postby Lore » Thu May 24, 2007 1:04 pm

I actually block for 408 raid buffed :P Finally over the 400 mark again, and with the patch making uncrushable easier to maintain I'm working at getting my autoblocker. Woo!
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Postby Rashadi » Thu May 24, 2007 1:22 pm

Yeah I understand all that Kathryn, but I dont think 60 spell damage is enough to increase my post-patch tps from 350 up to "through the roof" if I recall... it would probably increase my tps by about... well 60ish. I might try and raise my block rating a bit more and see if I cant put out more threat with HS. I'll start using more wizard oils as well. I never used them before as I had never had threat issues up until now.

Nice Lore. I really need to get my block value up, but Im focusing on hitting 13k stam unbuffed first, and then pushing my BV up from there. If I could just get a little luckier on drops...
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Postby Jensaarai » Thu May 24, 2007 1:49 pm

I have exactly 25.00% dodge and 16.32% parry unbuffed...but I don't block for 400 like Lore :P only ~266. This may go down if I start wearing my Righteous Chestpiece, though.

wtb cheaper stars of elune, pst.
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Postby Kyroro » Thu May 24, 2007 2:05 pm

I can only think of a few reasons why my threat gen has gone up:

1. The new Holy Shield talents make each charge hit for 200+ and now there are 8 charges.
2. I'm uncrushable without the heroic libram, so using the consecrate libram has increased each consecrate tick by a large amount.

Example of why I say this is Attunemen, we usually have 2 tanks, one for the horse, one for the dude and lastly one of the tanks takes the combined duo. I was on the horse initially. When the dude appeared, I hit a max rank consecrate + avenging wrath (not on purpose) and the 2nd warrior couldn't pull him off me. I was only actively generating threat on the horse.

I ended up tanking the entire thing all 3 phases (and yes I still ran out of mana even when tanking both!).

Some trash pulls right before Morose consist of 2 undead mobs which hit pretty hard and give you that no armor debuff. Same thing, I pulled my target, started doing threat with SoR, HS and max rank consecrate, next thing I know I'm tanking both and the warrior can't pull it off me. Needless to say I died both times this happened due to the debuff. In the future I may just pull mine farther away so my consecrate doesn't hit it.

Now this warrior is really good, on a single target mob he usually pushes 700TPS according to KTM, and I typically push 600+ if I hit all the abilities. This is pre-2.1. Now I'm generating 800TPS when I blow all my abilities, it's pretty crazy.

The hilarious thing is I got innervated 4 times that raid, didn't ask for it at all. The healers had a large amount of mana left on all fights. I also had a shadow priest in my group without salv, and I was ahead of her in threat by a wide margin. However, I cringe to think of a raid where the shadow priest is not available.
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Postby vladpl » Thu May 24, 2007 3:35 pm

Hi All

I was reading troughout all of the forums regarding tenkadins and how they got nerfed. As I am one of the main tanks in my guild I was a bit scared to walk in to karahzan and start tanking due to mana regen and holding aggro issues.

Sure the SA sux now since the new patch but to tell you once I respeced to imp HS I ended up better than before. My aggro was huge and to compensate for mana you can get new potions to increase spelldmg and spirit and also spell dmg and intel ( they cost around 1-2g to make) also if you eat some food that gives you +spell damage and spirit you will be unstopable.


Yesterday I was tanking Achuman and Moroes and unlike previous I didn't have to drink any super mana potions. SoW was enough to keep my mana regen. When I started to fight the horse my aggro went so insaninly up that when achuman appeared other warrior couldn't take him of me. I had to stop dps to let him catch up.

Anyways that is what I noticed so far with the new patch. Yes mana regen is crap but pallies have ended up being better tanks.....

Another note is that I took down a lvl 72 elite on my own without healing and still had half life and mana left.

If anyone has anything to add I would like to hear as I have learned everything I know from you guys,

Vlad
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Postby Rashadi » Thu May 24, 2007 3:52 pm

When you guys say your threat is "insanely high" how much threat per second are we actually talking? I could usually sustain 700-800 tps before the patch, and now Im sustaining anywhere from 300-500 threat, and thats with judgement of the crusader up.
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Postby Rashadi » Fri May 25, 2007 6:53 pm

Hey guys, just wanted to see if anyone else could find a solution to my problem. I logged myself killing an elemental out in shadowmoon, using all my highest rank holy spells in an attempt to compare my holy output to that of another paladin against single targets. Its a short log I'm aware, so it may or may not help, but I wanted to keep things minimum. During this fight, I was unable to put out more than 430 tps, which is rediculously low for me, considering two cycles of max rank spells will put me out of mana unbuffed. Any input would be apprecieated.


5/25 21:39:22.906 Enraged Earth Spirit attacks. You block.
5/25 21:39:22.906 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:22.906 Your Greater Blessing of Sanctuary hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 49 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:22.906 Your Holy Shield hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 215 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:23.156 You attack. Enraged Earth Spirit dodges.
5/25 21:39:23.937 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:23.953 You gain Seal of Righteousness.
5/25 21:39:24.750 Enraged Earth Spirit attacks. You block.
5/25 21:39:24.953 Enraged Earth Spirit resists your Greater Blessing of Sanctuary.
5/25 21:39:24.953 You hit Enraged Earth Spirit for 126.
5/25 21:39:24.953 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:25.234 Your Holy Shield hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 216 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:25.234 Your Seal of Righteousness hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 114 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:25.859 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:26.703 You hit Enraged Earth Spirit for 104.
5/25 21:39:26.984 Your Seal of Righteousness hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 115 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:26.984 Enraged Earth Spirit attacks. You dodge.
5/25 21:39:26.984 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:27.828 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration..
5/25 21:39:28.671 You hit Enraged Earth Spirit for 92.
5/25 21:39:28.671 Your Seal of Righteousness hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 114 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:28.890 Enraged Earth Spirit attacks. You block.
5/25 21:39:28.890 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:28.890 Your Greater Blessing of Sanctuary hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 48 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:28.890 Your Holy Shield hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 216 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:29.281 Consecration fades from Enraged Earth Spirit.
5/25 21:39:29.281 Holy Shield fades from you.
5/25 21:39:29.656 Enraged Earth Spirit is afflicted by Consecration.
5/25 21:39:30.296 You hit Enraged Earth Spirit for 106.
5/25 21:39:30.500 Your Seal of Righteousness hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 114 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:30.500 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:30.640 You fail to cast Holy Shield: Not yet recovered.
5/25 21:39:30.875 Enraged Earth Spirit attacks. You dodge.
5/25 21:39:31.296 You gain Holy Shield.
5/25 21:39:31.500 Enraged Earth Spirit suffers 111 Holy damage from your Consecration.
5/25 21:39:32.265 You hit Enraged Earth Spirit for 110.
5/25 21:39:32.468 Enraged Earth Spirit casts Summon Enraged Earth Shard.
5/25 21:39:32.468 You have slain Enraged Earth Spirit!
5/25 21:39:32.468 Your Seal of Righteousness hits Enraged Earth Spirit for 114 Holy damage.
5/25 21:39:32.562 You fail to cast Judgement: Your target is dead.
5/25 21:39:32.796 Enraged Earth Spirit dies.



Edit: I just tried tanking Shadow Labs, and took a screenshot of the Murmur fight, and myself rocking a sustained 365 tps while wearing some righteous gear with 260 spell damage. Ignore the messy ui, I have the majorty of my addons turned off till I can figure out what the issue is.

http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb37 ... threat.jpg

Note that all my abilities are on cooldown, and that I'm not having mana problems in particular. I dont have SoR on at the moment of the SS, but you can see that I just let off a JoR and hadnt reapplied the seal.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri May 25, 2007 11:13 pm

Well first I think the meter is off, when I add it up I get 5064 threat total over a 10 second span meaning 506.4 TPS. You also do not land a judgement during this span as the mob died just as you cast it. Based on your spell dmg (from your other dmg), I'm guessing your JoR lands for about 430 dmg or 817 treat. Had that landed during that cycle that would have given you about 580 TPS which is IMO a decent amount against a mob that is not particularly fast attacking.
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Postby Caerdwynn » Sat May 26, 2007 8:16 am

You may also want to consider dropping some of your dodge for more +block rating.

You'll get hit more, but you'll generate a ton more damage.

I'm bursting at about 900-1000 TPS right now on pulls, and sitting solid around 6-700 when I've got my max rank cycle going.

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Re: Another Mana/Tanking Question

Postby adese » Sun May 27, 2007 6:28 am

DraenorGauss wrote:Why do most Main Tankadins place so much emphasis on gear to increase dodge/parry/block versus +int gear to increase mana?


In Kara, if you want to MT any of the bosses, you need as much +dodge/parry/block as you can get. Since we have less base HP than warriors, anything that you can do to lower the amount of damage you are taking is a good thing.

Personally, in 5 mans, I only run out of mana because my gear is good enough where I take little to no damage, so I get little to no mana from SA. I'm trying to put together a set based around the Righteous set orientated more towards spell damage, int, and mana/5.

In Kara, I generally use mostly warrior tanking gear (only Pally pieces are currently Righteous helm, T4 gloves, and CB) so that I can MT bosses as needed without making the healers go OOM.
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Postby Everlight » Sun May 27, 2007 3:47 pm

Just came out from a Kara run (Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, trash to Opera), using this gear;

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... =Everlight

Here's how I found mana;

Trash: Fine. I judged Wisdom on everything, swung with SoR. On AOE pulls, Judge Wisdom and swing with Wisdom. Had to drink once or twice, but it wasn't horrible.

Attumen: A little harsh near the end, but otherwise OK. Judged Wisdom, swung with Righteousness. Max rank Consecrates in the last phase & Exorcism spam, as well as judging as much as possible. In the first phase, I kept the mana draining to a minimum, since I only have to keep ahead of healing aggro.

Moroes: Some issues, but avoidable. There was one point where the Druid OT pulled aggro off me during a Gouge (and kept it), and I sapped my mana pool nearly dry spamming attacks to get Moroes off him. Other than that incident, was pretty ok. Judged Wisdom initially, then swung with SoR. Fired Exorcism at every opportunity, no Consecrate (risk of breaking CC).

Maiden: No issues at all. Spamming Holy Shield and max rank Consecrate constantly, keeping up SoR where I could, and helping with the cleansing. Mana pool stayed steadily high.

General Eval: Honestly, it's OK in Karazhan, it just requires a bit more caution about getting light-years ahead of everyone.
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Postby Jensaarai » Sun May 27, 2007 7:35 pm

You should find after Opera that your MP is much better. Things start actually hitting you for something...that's what I found, at least. I had absolutely 0 problems on prince (maybe because I didn't use consecrate but meh), 0 problems on curator, etc...but I had problems on Attumen and Moroes...

and I drink after every pull :P I'm addicted >.>
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