2.1 first Impressions

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Postby Caerdwynn » Wed May 23, 2007 7:33 am

lethario wrote:
Caer, I'm probably missing something but - who/what's Eggbert?


Egbert is a new pet added this year for a children's week reward. The model is awesome (screen shot at http://www.thottbott.com/i32616) and when he idles, he runs around in circles 20 yards away from you like a psycho.

Fun =D

Jesus: "I can offer you eternal Salvation."
Disciples: "Can I get Might or Kings instead?"
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Postby Ohren » Wed May 23, 2007 8:18 am

Servers were crazy but I managed to get in a normal Botanica run. I noticed quite a difference with my threat using a specc that includes 1h specialization and imp Righteousness. The SA nerf does suck but I don't find myself using consecrate as much so that helps. Imp HS is very nice and I absolutely love the lack of a deadzone for Avenger's.
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Re: 2.1 first Impressions

Postby Dragonzbane » Wed May 23, 2007 8:24 am

Dorvan wrote:This is a random collection of initial 2.1 impressions with no particular order or structure:

-- Having player health/mana numbers visible in the default party UI is a welcome is overdue change.

This isn't new.

I've been using the numbers in the UI since BC hit.

The only limitations I noticed was that I couldn't see mob HP numbers or player HP number outside my group or raid only %HPs.

If that did change, I didn't notice last night, then it's something new.

I have to figure out how to pull out the default MT windows, I shoulda messed around with that last night.
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Postby Dorvan » Wed May 23, 2007 8:32 am

Jensaarai wrote:Well, I was right, spiritual attunement blows. Tanking one or two or sometimes three mobs just isn't enough in the beginning of the instance, with the gear buffs I take no damage...attumen I had threat problems but I'm pretty sure it's because they changed the curse (I think) from melee hit to melee AND spell hit >.< and I didn't notice fast enough, and all my judgements/exorcisms/etc were getting resisted

This isn't new, the curse has always affected melee and spell hit. As for mana, in Kara last night I noticed that I had a little less mana available, but it wasn't an issue for me on boss fights, I was just drinking a lot more between pulls.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Wed May 23, 2007 8:53 am

Jensaarai wrote:Well, I was right, spiritual attunement blows.

Moroes I was also oom. He just didn't hit me enough. I was using r4 consecrate (290 mana), I think it was doing around 52-57 damage.

Well, I tanked to the finish of the Opera (Oz) last night here are my thoughts:

- SA change was definately noticable as I had less mana in general during the course of pulls. I didn't really run into Mana issues until Moroes though.
Toward the end of the fight between Vanishes I was in the 800-1500 mana range, I purposely waited on HS once or twice to take damage and get mana in.

- I didn't tank Maiden and I didn't notice any trouble with Attunemen or Tinman.

- Threat wise I didn't notice any increase, if nothing else I saw a slight decrease aside from AoE pulls where I put up some scary numbers at times. I run with ~180 SD for bosses and high HP pulls and ~300 SD for Trash/AoE.

- As far as gear upgrades go, I continue to have terrible luck in KZ and because of that I didn't see to much of an upgrade aside from my Neck, Shoulders, Trinket and Legs.

/rant on
- It's been months since I saw Bracers of Courage drop and I want them for my block set.

- I've never seen the Crimson Girdle and it's only dropped once for the guild.

- I haven't seen the Iron Gauntlets drop in a long time but they do seem to drop for whatever group I'm not in, I'm the only tank without them.

- Because of bad scheduling or people not showing up I haven't even seen the Chess Event in a month. We usually run 2 KZ groups a week with the leftovers jumpin into a 3rd mixed group. This obviously causes problems toward the end of the "raid week".

- I've only seen 1 pair of Boots of Elusion drop and I passed because I'd gotten a bunch of loot that run.

- I've never seen Battlescars drop but they dropped last week for the group I was supposed to be in. They started the run early before I logged on so they took a "non-raiding member" warrior instead. He walked out with Battlescars, Wrynn's and T4 Helm. To add insult to injury the Iron Gauntlets dropped and they DE'd them.

I hate KZ.
I have almost as many KZ healing Epics(3) as I do tanking Epics(4) and I'm long passed Exalted.

/rant off
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Postby Jensaarai » Wed May 23, 2007 9:37 am

Yeah, I usually keep my regular gear on because it's also stam gear, but I guess I'll trade a few pieces out for more mana/spell damage for the beginning of the instance next time. oh well.

I didn't notice the curse was spell hit as well before. For some reason I never had a problem, because my decursers are fucking lazy. I hate it when I get cursed because I can't cleanse it myself. Last night on Maiden like 4 people died because I ended up having to tank her because the warrior OT we had was way undergeared (he did pick up opera helm, maiden gloves, curator legs, and boots of elusion though, frickin' bastard all in one night) and I decurse a lot faster than anyone else (Clique ftw) so yeah. /rant off
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Postby Arcand » Wed May 23, 2007 10:22 am

Heroic Mechanar is significantly harder. Destroyers melee for crazy amounts, it seems to be more difficult to interrupt Charged Fist, Destroyers seem to be immune to Curse of Tongues and Serpethrea now resets if she sets foot on the glass pathway toward Pathaleon's room.

Edit: And yes, Onyxia Deep-Breaths more often. Smartass.

I also think the two minibosses have had their damage upped, since with my usual healer and my newly-improved gear I was taking damage like never before.

They say they want their content to get beaten, but I'm not sure they actually mean it. :P
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Postby Alixander » Wed May 23, 2007 10:29 am

Arcand wrote:They say they want their content to get beaten, but I'm not sure they actually mean it. :P
Minor note, but I'm pretty sure that comment was aimed at making general raiding easier so more people can see the Black Temple. Considering that you can probably count on one hand how many guilds per server saw Kel'thuzad before the expansion, that's what brought about that comment.
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Postby Julian » Wed May 23, 2007 10:39 am

Disorganized rambling warning.

SA nerf does suck, but it's not lethal to paladin tanking. I feared it would be, and it just isn't. Certainly annoying in 5-mans heroic and otherwise, though.

8-charge HS is really, really good. I know that none of us want to be just the trash tank, but that said, we are even more insane at tanking trash than we were before-- when each block is worth 200ish damage and nearly 500 threat, and you're blocking the full 8 attacks every 10 seconds, the TPS numbers look pretty good, and I say that without a good chunk of the available threat talents like 1h Spec, Imp SoR, and Weapon Expertise.

It is also now pure concentrated awesome for soloing purposes, which in light of the nerf on downranked Consecrate is a lovely thing.

(On a related note I'm pretty sure that you don't need to Consecrate on Moroes at all now.)

AD change is very solid as well.

I'm increasingly confident that the points I have in Reckoning are wasted points. I'm not even sure it's worth it for AE grinding at current gear levels unless I take off enough +block value gear to let blocks damage me. When you're pulling 25 demon hunter supplicants and you're still annoyed by Reckoning's uptime, that's a bad sign. This is a pity for nostalgia reasons because imo Reckoning is one of the best levelling talents in any tree, for any class, but especially with the looming move to the 1.6 speed arena mace I'm not sure that the 5 points still make sense.

Gear buffs were sufficiently large that it is now feasible to think about skipping Deflection. I logged in to find myself something like 6% over uncrushable after I bought and enchanted my Faceguard of Determination.

Assuming that the current build of TankPoints is accurate (anyone know offhand?) I could drop Deflection and still be uncrushable with a stamina trinket equipped, and my gear isn't anything special.

This is important because if we're not tethered to Deflection anymore we have a bunch of new options in terms of spec. Going up Holy for Imp SoR and Imp LH looks particularly tasty, for instance, and from there one could either grab Illumination or grab more threat talents out of Prot.

I think that this is the patch where 20/41 becomes a serious option for both real tanking work and for real healing muscle; the last 21 points in Holy are much less attractive than they used to be, because 11% crit on HL is 40% worse than it used to be. The way I see it, the main difference between 20/41 and 41/20 is Light's Grace for max HPS and a couple thousand mana over the course of a fight, and that's a pretty good argument in favor of speccing 20/41 when you are going to be healing some fights and tanking some fights.

Overall, this patch is a significant buff to my tankadin's power level overall and to my tanking viability specifically. I say this as someone who had one foot firmly in the doom and gloom camp pre-patch. We are still not where we need to be, and our talent tree is still bloated beyond all reason, but this was a good patch to be a tanking pally.
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Postby Sabindeus » Wed May 23, 2007 10:58 am

Well I became uncrushable in my preferred gear... BP of the Righteous vs Vindicator's Hauberk previously. So I'm happy about that... less Consecration cost ftw.

I hit the Ogri'la 5 man quests and such with my buddies last night... didn't have mana problems with a Shadow Priest.... which isn't saying much of course.

Fun note of the evening: I fought some of the L71 ogres above Shattrath while waiting for a Son of Gruul to spawn there. I had 2 of them on me. They, literally, could not damage me. Every single incoming hit was a Miss/Dodge/Parry/Full Block. My friend the resto shaman, standing right next to me, was not happy. Improved Holy Shield is a LOT more fun than I thought it would be. :D
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Postby Kathryn » Wed May 23, 2007 12:13 pm

I still don't wanna go under 51 points in Prot :(

I could use 10 in holy for imp SoR, but 15% less mana on Seal / Judgement is also nice and 5% parry is still 5% avoidance...
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Postby Aromas » Thu May 24, 2007 5:58 am

I haven't attempt Karazhan yet, but with a strong MT build, and probably the best gear available, Gruul wasn't any different in regards to the SA nerf. I was still at full mana the majority of the fight, with the exception of the pull, since Shield throw eats a huge chunk of mana.

I was deep OOM in any kind of normal 5 man, so to compensate, I just took off half of my armor, and ran around with my acessories, and set pieces, and it worked fine, lol. (Puggers thought I was retarded...haha)

It definetly puts us in the position where it's either MTing, tanking adds, or nothing. OTing is no longer a viable option, because you'll be deep out of mana much faster.

Definetly not as bad as I thought, and it's not the end of the world, but still lame and annoying to deal with on smaller scale adventures, or slower hitting bosses.
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Postby Jensaarai » Thu May 24, 2007 6:39 am

Yeah, Prince last night was a complete joke. Mana was no problem, and my threat was through the roof, even without consecrate. With only an arcane elixir, so maybe 243 spell damage, I ended the fight with over 255k threat (Holy Shield, SoR/JoR/SoV/JoV, Exorcism). The cast bugfix is a godsend, I took so much less damage it wasn't even funny. The only time I was crushed was when I was putting up holy shield after a cooldown (wtb shorter cooldown or longer duration), and phase two was a joke with the gear buffs, with druid rejuv bonus and grace of air I had like 32%+ dodge.

So it seems the only places I'm going to have problems with mana is as expected, the easier bosses. I'll just switch some pieces I guess. I have yet to do a 5-man so we'll see how that goes, but I have a lot of spell damage gear for that.

I'm liking it so far :) the only thing I want: An epic version of Continuum Blade, dammit!
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Postby Strom » Thu May 24, 2007 6:46 am

Did Karazhan last night:

1) Imp Holy Shield is VERY nice. I noticed a huge difference in threat. Our shadow priest was able to go all out and never pulled agro from me. Even when she did not have salvation.

2) I didnt notice much differance in SA. Maybe it was because I didnt have an off tank last night?

3) I also liked the deadzone removal from AS. I didnt really care much about that change before, but in practice it was pretty handy. I used it a couple times AFTER a pull when before I would have not had that option.

I think we we are given 1 semi-reliable emergency button (10 min cooldown?), and a talent that would award us some mitigation from a caster stat (Bonus to defense from Int? Anything!), we would be very competitive.
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Postby Gehrond » Thu May 24, 2007 7:12 am

Ok, I have OT'd kara and did a vanilla BM last night. No serious mana issues on either.

Biggest effect I have seen is more downtime between pulls and the need to scale our gear for the encounter more effectively. Don't do a 5-man in raid gear, don't do raid trash in raid boss gear, etc. Most of us have an armory worth of gear from collecting to become uncrushable, use that selection wisely.

Righteous set (pieces, not the whole set) is more raid friendly given the overall buffs to other gear.
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