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Scaling avoidance that has an odd side-effect....

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Scaling avoidance that has an odd side-effect....

Postby Joanadark » Sat May 19, 2007 1:39 pm

Parry.

most expensive avoidance itemization possible.
being reduced in cost by 25%.

Facts:
Avoidance tanks have threat issues because they have less reactive damage and fewer reckonning procs.

Parried hits proc reactive damage such as Ret Aura, the only avoidance which does so.
Parried hits give a chance to proc Reckonning (i think).
Parried attacks speed up your current swing timer by alot.

What if...as an avoidance tank who was having threat issues.....after achieving uncrushability..... you start replacing your dodge itemization.....with parry?




just a thought.
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Postby Dorvan » Sat May 19, 2007 1:47 pm

That's actually a reasonable thought, provided you're at a comfortable place mitigation-wise. My main worry is that I don't know that it's possible for us to get in a comfortable position from a mitigation standpoint, at least when we're pushing on new content. If parried attacks proc reckoning that'd be a big argument in it's favor, but I'd want to see evidence of that, I actually don't think that's correct.
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Postby Torakka » Sat May 19, 2007 2:14 pm

I fail too see reason for paladin to go avoidance tank way. HP and mitigation make us able to tank and survive harder (as in harder hitting) bosses than avoidance tank and high threat generation allows DPSers to nuke those bosses down fast so healers going oom isn't as big problem as it is with HP & mitigation warrior tank.
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Re: Scaling avoidance that has an odd side-effect....

Postby Rhastago » Sun May 20, 2007 2:54 am

Joanadark wrote:Parry.

Parried hits proc reactive damage such as Ret Aura, the only avoidance which does so.
Parried hits give a chance to proc Reckonning (i think).
Parried attacks speed up your current swing timer by alot.


All of it is _false_ besides parry increasing the current swing timer (By 40%).
It does not proc ret aura, it does not proc reckoning.
Parry is still not too great, though I won't shun myself away from it anymore in favor of just dodge or BV.
I wish threat was my only problem, I really do.
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Postby QuantumDelta » Sun May 20, 2007 6:26 am

Yeay Rhas <3
nani shini umareta no? nani shini koko ni iru?
ikinokoritai, umaranai kizum, hikari osoreteta
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Postby Rhastago » Sun May 20, 2007 11:37 pm

QD \o/
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Postby Rhastago » Sun May 20, 2007 11:43 pm

Torakka wrote:I fail too see reason for paladin to go avoidance tank way. HP and mitigation make us able to tank and survive harder (as in harder hitting) bosses than avoidance tank and high threat generation allows DPSers to nuke those bosses down fast so healers going oom isn't as big problem as it is with HP & mitigation warrior tank.


Tbh, Going in the way of avoiding the damage only hinders our 5man threat, and that depends on class compisition as well.
If we were to main tank something in a 25man, one would expect you to have a shammy for the SD totem + the 42sd temp weapon enchant and you're set on threat.
really, threat isn't much of an issue once you have shammy + jotc + weapon enchant.
That's why I rather take off hits from the table entirely, rather than gain more "threat".. and damage taken :P

It's really all about the setup :wink:
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Postby Torakka » Mon May 21, 2007 5:32 am

Our casters and melee DPS usually want to keep all shamans, so us, poors tanks, must adapt. :wink:
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Postby Lore » Mon May 21, 2007 7:16 am

We usually stick a shaman in the tank's group, but keep in mind Totem mechanics; using Wrath of Air totem (+spelldamage) means you don't get Grace of Air (+77 agi) which is a loss of a little over 3% dodge. I haven't run into a situation where that's worth it.
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Postby Rhastago » Mon May 21, 2007 7:58 am

Hmm lore, it really depends on the type of fight.
If it's a burn fight like gruul, there's no reason to not go for the extra SD.. :p
Since a shorter fight means less damage taken thus going for max threat would mean you get less damage overall.
If it's a sustainability fight you should get the agi totem, yes.
thus the need to top-out dps isn't THAT needed, though it makes the life of the healers easier, though I don't really think healers run into that much mana problems where it would matter.

Hmm, I'm rambling again, but I'd like to hear your opinions on the matter :o
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Postby Lore » Mon May 21, 2007 8:24 am

Eh, Gruul is kind of a weird encounter anyway. Extra threat doesn't necessarily mean extra damage, since the offtank needs to keep up. The spell damage might be worth it there for your ranged DPS though. Gruul is also severely nerfed from what he used to be :P We have more people die on the trash to his room than on the actual encounter these days.
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Postby Rhastago » Mon May 21, 2007 9:11 am

Our druid Azgaz has no problem catching up with me on threat at least :p

Gruul's indeed nerfed, but in a way the +agi totem wouldn't even matter Oo
Since the only change was to ground slam.. he hits just the same as he always had.. :p
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Postby Lore » Mon May 21, 2007 9:24 am

Rhastago wrote:Our druid Azgaz has no problem catching up with me on threat at least :p

Gruul's indeed nerfed, but in a way the +agi totem wouldn't even matter Oo
Since the only change was to ground slam.. he hits just the same as he always had.. :p


He hits the tank just as hard sure, but he hits the rest of the raid for much less. That frees up a lot more healing for the tank.
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Postby Rhastago » Mon May 21, 2007 9:34 am

I don't see how that really changed anything, most healers with common sense healed the tank first since he took immediate damage after the slam, and the DPS who survived bandaged.
We just had a designated tree for raid healing really, wasn't too bad :p
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Postby Lore » Mon May 21, 2007 9:39 am

It just makes everything easier overall.
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