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The dark days of Pre TBC

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Postby Lore » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:40 pm

Ahh, decursive... I remember those days.

Let me tell you Alliance whippersnappers that Chromaggus without Cleanse was an absolute pain in the ass.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:40 pm

Arcand wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:The naxx gear was pure healing.


...and that hurt. Having just had our tanking mechanics re-worked, the dumbest tankadins dared to hope that in the big undead raid instance we might get to tank something and maybe see some tank gear.

I did tank a few bits of Naxx trash, but I was doing it in Scholomance blues so you can imagine.

To summarize, the dark days before BC were pretty frigging dark.



I actually did do some naxx trash tanking when our warriors weren't able to make it, it was ugly compare to them. My gear was mostly extra raid epics too, so it was pretty good, but it wasn't anything close to what a warrior could do.
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Re: The dark days of Pre TBC

Postby Alixander » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:41 pm

Palafix wrote:What was it like playing as a pally? What did you do in raids? In 5-mans? Did any of you tank anything, or try tanking anything? Was it really all that bad pre-TBC?
I had Alixander prior to the expansion, but after 1.9. I won't talk about the days of Seal of Fury since I don't know about them. I will talk about my experiences afterwards. While I was Holy specced back in the day, I did do some tanking, the ability to raid tank was something that was for most purposes, impossible. There were three key problems:
  1. Lack of a Taunt: I don't need to go into detail on this one, we all know it. Prior to 2.0, Righteous Defense was not in-game. Imagine trying to tank a 5-man, let alone a raid without your taunt.
  2. Lack of Longevity: 2.0 also brought us mana regen via Spiritual Attunement. Without SA, a Paladin's threat generation only lasted as long as his mana did. This meant a much stronger emphasis on mana pool and MP5, at the expense of other key stats such as spell damage, stamina, and avoidance. This is something we struggle with currently, only much worse back then.
  3. Crushability: At the time I was unaware of it, since I never raided with Alixander (my mage, Kaziel, was my main then), with my current understanding of how tanking works, I realize the huge weakness we would have faced. Biggest problem would be that Paladins are unable to reach uncrushable status. Prior to 2.0, there were no ratings, everything was in straight percents. Because percents scaled with level, Blizzard was much more reluctant to give them out. Looking over available avoidance plate gear at 60, I cannot find enough to push us up to 102.4%. While players may not have figured it out at that point, the simple fact would come to light that even with Holy Shield, Paladins would seem to be "harder to heal" than a warrior.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:41 pm

Arcand wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:The naxx gear was pure healing.


...and that hurt. Having just had our tanking mechanics re-worked, the dumbest tankadins dared to hope that in the big undead raid instance we might get to tank something and maybe see some tank gear.

I did tank a few bits of Naxx trash, but I was doing it in Scholomance blues so you can imagine.

To summarize, the dark days before BC were pretty frigging dark.


Also, 1.9 truly killed our tanking ability. The amount of aggro you could produce even with Judgement Armor, which was our only real means of acquiring spell damage at the time, and the new Righteous Fury... was pathetic in comparison to just about anything else. Especially the mechanic it replaced.

And on top of all that, it was nigh impossible to get armor with real defensive stats on it.

I'm one of the lucky ones that picked up full T2 and AQ20/40 tanking blues/epics, plus a Quel'Serrar, plus an MC shield before BC came out. And I pwned Hellfire Ramparts real good.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:43 pm

Lore wrote:Ahh, decursive... I remember those days.

Let me tell you Alliance whippersnappers that Chromaggus without Cleanse was an absolute pain in the ass.


And let me tell you Horde shmucks that Shaman were horribly overpowered in PVP. :P
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:44 pm

Sabindeus wrote:It's true, every 5 minutes.

BUT!

I would like to explain why this wasn't terrible. It has to do with two addons whose behavior has since become outlawed by the UI folks (and with good reason).


5 minute blessing sucked period, whispercast was nice, but I still hated 5 minute blessings. Clicking a button 40 times every 4 minutes got old fast.
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Postby Lore » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:46 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
Lore wrote:Ahh, decursive... I remember those days.

Let me tell you Alliance whippersnappers that Chromaggus without Cleanse was an absolute pain in the ass.


And let me tell you Horde shmucks that Shaman were horribly overpowered in PVP. :P


Pfft, it didn't matter until a good 6-8 months after a server went live, particularly when there weren't cross-server BG's, because every single Alliance warrior had a Bonereaver's Edge and a Paladin in his back pocket healing him, BoF'ing him, and otherwise making him invulnerable to damage.

Meanwhile I'm swinging away with my Barbarous Blade trying to get the Enhancement Shaman next to me to drop windfury and heal me.
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Postby Palafix » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:46 pm

Lore wrote:Ahh, decursive... I remember those days.

Let me tell you Alliance whippersnappers that Chromaggus without Cleanse was an absolute pain in the ass.


qft



Sabindeus wrote:And let me tell you Horde shmucks that Shaman were horribly overpowered in PVP.


Tell that to the pallies that used to 2-shot me in BGs. There weren't many things I feared as a wsg flag carrier. Paladins were def. one of them.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:47 pm

Sabindeus wrote:Also, 1.9 truly killed our tanking ability. The amount of aggro you could produce even with Judgement Armor, which was our only real means of acquiring spell damage at the time, and the new Righteous Fury... was pathetic in comparison to just about anything else. Especially the mechanic it replaced.

And on top of all that, it was nigh impossible to get armor with real defensive stats on it.

I'm one of the lucky ones that picked up full T2 and AQ20/40 tanking blues/epics, plus a Quel'Serrar, plus an MC shield before BC came out. And I pwned Hellfire Ramparts real good.


LOL Quel'Serrar. I tanked post 1.9 with the Bloodcaller and then the Lok'Amir. I did have plenty of tanking epics though from all of our raiding, I would snag the leftovers.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:49 pm

Lore wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
Lore wrote:Ahh, decursive... I remember those days.

Let me tell you Alliance whippersnappers that Chromaggus without Cleanse was an absolute pain in the ass.


And let me tell you Horde shmucks that Shaman were horribly overpowered in PVP. :P


Pfft, it didn't matter until a good 6-8 months after a server went live, particularly when there weren't cross-server BG's, because every single Alliance warrior had a Bonereaver's Edge and a Paladin in his back pocket healing him, BoF'ing him, and otherwise making him invulnerable to damage.

Meanwhile I'm swinging away with my Barbarous Blade trying to get the Enhancement Shaman next to me to drop windfury and heal me.


What made shaman a pain back then was the extra ranged instacast interrupt they provided.
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Postby Palafix » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:50 pm

Also, speaking of which...

How did decisions on stuff like thunderfury work out? Especially @ Invisusira.
What was the decision based on? Did they choose you specifically for the weapon, or was it a dkp kind of thing?
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:51 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:Also, 1.9 truly killed our tanking ability. The amount of aggro you could produce even with Judgement Armor, which was our only real means of acquiring spell damage at the time, and the new Righteous Fury... was pathetic in comparison to just about anything else. Especially the mechanic it replaced.

And on top of all that, it was nigh impossible to get armor with real defensive stats on it.

I'm one of the lucky ones that picked up full T2 and AQ20/40 tanking blues/epics, plus a Quel'Serrar, plus an MC shield before BC came out. And I pwned Hellfire Ramparts real good.


LOL Quel'Serrar. I tanked post 1.9 with the Bloodcaller and then the Lok'Amir. I did have plenty of tanking epics though from all of our raiding, I would snag the leftovers.


What lol? Quel was awesome. I never managed to get a Lok'amir or Bloodcaller, and if I had one I probably would have used it... but the Quel was more than sufficient given that I had about 150 spell damage from my Judgement pieces. :P
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:53 pm

Palafix wrote:
Lore wrote:Ahh, decursive... I remember those days.

Let me tell you Alliance whippersnappers that Chromaggus without Cleanse was an absolute pain in the ass.


qft



Sabindeus wrote:And let me tell you Horde shmucks that Shaman were horribly overpowered in PVP.


Tell that to the pallies that used to 2-shot me in BGs. There weren't many things I feared as a wsg flag carrier. Paladins were def. one of them.


Those were the Paladins who either spent their entire lives devoted to PVP for Grand Marshal or whose guilds gave them Hand of Rag or Ashkandi. :P
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:53 pm

Fridmarr wrote:What made shaman a pain back then was the extra ranged instacast interrupt they provided.


^--- this

ALSO

Purge > You

Frost Shock + Earthbind + Purge = running? what's that?
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Postby Menoch » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:54 pm

Lore wrote:Ahh, decursive... I remember those days.

Let me tell you Alliance whippersnappers that Chromaggus without Cleanse was an absolute pain in the ass.


How about raiding w/o salvation? Then getting the joke that was the tranquil air totem.

Alliance didn't know how good they had it.
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