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Avoidance Questions.

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Avoidance Questions.

Postby Caerdwynn » Sat May 19, 2007 8:00 am

So, I've lately hit the "magic threshold". I wasn't even paying attention. One day, I checked my avoidance. 104.1%. Wow.

I changed all my gems to +stam, came up with 2 different kits - one that gives me 101.6% avoidance for heroics and raid trash, one that's 102.5% for raid bosses. I'm sitting at between 11.2k and 11.5k hps in either set. It's a good place to be.

Then, the Boots of Elusion dropped in Kz Tuesday. I won 'em. So I spent a half hour tweaking my gear, figuring out how I wanted things set up, looking for the best gear combos. I started running for the trinket from Underbog (Argussian Compass) for the extra +stam, since I had other ways to make up for the avoidance I'd lose from the trinket slot. I'm sure a lot of you know what this is like.

Now, here come the questions.

First off, I wonder about +stam vs. +armor. The best comparison I can make between the two is the Gladiator's Shield Wall vs. the Crest of Sha'tar. If I use the Crest, I can stack +stam other places, because it's got 11 more defense than the Shield Wall. However, I'm losing 800 armor and 5 block for the extra 11 defense. From what I can see from numbers, 575 armor = 1% mitigation.

Now, I know there's not really a way you can theorycraft this.. the value of +stam is based on how hard you're getting hit and how well you're being healed.. armor is just straight mitigation from physical hits... but, in your opinions, at what point do you start trading armor for stam? Is 800 armor worth 10 stam? 20? 50? Guess this one's mostly opinion.

Second question - the hit table. I've been asking this question in different places, and I keep getting different answers. Let's say I've got 100% avoidance, and I'm fighting a level 70 purely physical hitter. I have 25% dodge, 25% parry, and 50% shield block. If I add more avoidance, which gets pushed off the table first? What order do they get pushed off after that? I'm trying to up my dodge/parry in my "Under 73" set, while keep my shield block rating higher in my set for raid bosses. Still trying to figure out how exactly this mechanic works. And yes - I know it's still all theory, but there's gotta be some sort of "accepted opinion" floating around.

Thanks for the help guys =D I'm still trying to figure out how to stop being a mage and start being a paladin ;)

~Caer
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Postby Coldaan » Sat May 19, 2007 8:40 am

personally, i don't even think about armor. with 2.1 and all the kara items getting pushed i will be close to or above 16k armor, which should be enough.^^

on the hit table, block rating gets pushed off first, so every +block rating you get after the magic 102,4% (or something close to that^^) is pretty much a waste as long as you can keep holy shield up. so better go for def/dodge/stamina from now on. parry is still a bit "expensive2 imho for the avoidance you get compared to dodge.
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Re: Avoidance Questions.

Postby Dorvan » Sat May 19, 2007 8:51 am

Caerdwynn wrote:First off, I wonder about +stam vs. +armor. The best comparison I can make between the two is the Gladiator's Shield Wall vs. the Crest of Sha'tar. If I use the Crest, I can stack +stam other places, because it's got 11 more defense than the Shield Wall. However, I'm losing 800 armor and 5 block for the extra 11 defense. From what I can see from numbers, 575 armor = 1% mitigation.

Now, I know there's not really a way you can theorycraft this.. the value of +stam is based on how hard you're getting hit and how well you're being healed.. armor is just straight mitigation from physical hits... but, in your opinions, at what point do you start trading armor for stam? Is 800 armor worth 10 stam? 20? 50? Guess this one's mostly opinion.


Actually, you can theorycraft this quite nicely. Armor and HP both have the same effect: increasing the size of your effective health pool (assuming physical damage only, thoguh). Granted, increasing armor instead of raw HP is easier on your healers' mana, but they're more or less equivalent. For an example, let's say you're at 10k HP with 50% damage reduction. You can take 20k unmitigated damage before dying. Now suppose that say 300 more armor puts you up to 51% damage reduction. You can now take 10000/.49 = 20408 unmitigated damage. Of course, if you stayed at 50% DR, picking up 204 more HP would also allow you to take 20408 damage. Thus, for this hypothetical example, 300 armor ~= 20 stamina.

The main tricky thing about armor vs. stamina is that the conversions aren't static. The more you raise your armor the more valuable stamina is relative to armor, and vice versa. For any given gear level, however, you can come up with a conversion between HP and armor, you don't have to make any assumptions about how hard the mob is hitting.

One again however I'd like to emphasize the bosses that do magic damage change the balance significantly, as armor doesn't help mitigate that damage at all.
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Re: Avoidance Questions.

Postby Everlight » Sat May 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Dorvan wrote:The main tricky thing about armor vs. stamina is that the conversions aren't static. The more you raise your armor the more valuable stamina is relative to armor, and vice versa. For any given gear level, however, you can come up with a conversion between HP and armor, you don't have to make any assumptions about how hard the mob is hitting.


For these kind of damage soak calculations, TankPoints is perfect - the score is an indicator of total damage soak.

And seconded on the magic damage element.
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