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Zoned into The Eye for the first time last night...

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Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Postby Arcand » Mon May 14, 2007 3:17 pm

I thought you made your case pretty well and with a minimum of melodrama.

If Blizzard reads it, I predict they will take immediate action, by decreasing the mana cost of Blessing of Freedom by 8%. :roll:

(That was the most unhelpful, what-are-they-thinking tanking buff I could some up with on the spur of the moment.)
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Postby Everlight » Mon May 14, 2007 3:21 pm

Honestly, there is no doubt in my mind there's a disconnect between the class designers and the encounter designers.

Bear in mind that these encounters have probably been on the drawing board for a LONG time, way back when Warriors were THE tank.

Blizzard should be simply looking at all encounters and saying to themselves "Are there any abilities here that WTFPWN the tank unless he has one specific ability? If so, CHANGE IT!"

The creation of a mob with a 14k instant spell attack just screams "made to force the use of Spell Reflect", which by extension screams "made for warriors". This shouldn't be the case.
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Postby Arcand » Mon May 14, 2007 3:38 pm

Everlight wrote:The creation of a mob with a 14k instant spell attack just screams "made to force the use of Spell Reflect", which by extension screams "made for warriors". This shouldn't be the case.


I'm okay with the existence of such mobs...as long as, for every one of them, there's one mob which screws warriors and one which screws bears.

As it is, raids are occasionally punished for letting us tank and never really even inconvenienced for using a warrior or bear. (Where's Maiden version II who keeps you disarmed for two seconds out of three? Where's the rage burn, or a Tranquilize aura that sucks away rage? Or the Blademaster with a crazy-high attack rate and 70% parry?)

I don't want fights such as this to be common by any means...but to the extent they have to exist, dammit, they should spread the grief around.
Last edited by Arcand on Tue May 15, 2007 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon May 14, 2007 3:52 pm

Everlight wrote:Honestly, there is no doubt in my mind there's a disconnect between the class designers and the encounter designers.

Bear in mind that these encounters have probably been on the drawing board for a LONG time, way back when Warriors were THE tank.


Ha, no pun intended?

Anyhow I agree, I'm sure that is part of the difficulty, however, I can't stay a tank who can't tank much until dungeons just now on the drawing board come to fruition.

Blizzard should be simply looking at all encounters and saying to themselves "Are there any abilities here that WTFPWN the tank unless he has one specific ability? If so, CHANGE IT!"

The creation of a mob with a 14k instant spell attack just screams "made to force the use of Spell Reflect", which by extension screams "made for warriors". This shouldn't be the case.


I agree, save that I don't mind having warrior specific encounters, so long as there are pally/druid specific encounters. To date, I do not know of any encounter specifically designed to be tanked by a pally, or even made significantly easier if tanked by a pally. Which is a bit frustrating when you consider Hunters, Mages, and Locks all have had such encounters.
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Postby Lore » Mon May 14, 2007 3:56 pm

For the record, it's not instant, it just can't be interrupted. If I had a way to react to it, I could quite easily. I suppose I could DS+click off, but he'll just cast it again 10 seconds later.

I haven't heard of any encounters beyond Morogrim that have any particular advantage toward Paladins.
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Postby DracAlexstrasza » Mon May 14, 2007 5:25 pm

Lore wrote:I haven't heard of any encounters beyond Morogrim that have any particular advantage toward Paladins.


I hadn't heard much about The Eye... but I guess I should have seen this coming. Oh well, my bf wants me to start playing that lotr mmo, maybe I will. lol
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Postby Livyan » Mon May 14, 2007 5:35 pm

*De-lurk (I've been busy the last week-and-a-half or so..)*

Hey Lore, you're quoted!

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 0990&sid=1

^ Clicky for Lore on EU! :O
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Postby Lore » Mon May 14, 2007 8:40 pm

Woohoo, I'm famous!

Wow, responses from across the lake are pretty gloomy compared to the largely optimistic responses I've been getting on the US forums >.>
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Postby Joanadark » Mon May 14, 2007 11:38 pm

Archimonde, end boss of Hyjal, has an AOE fear that the MT *has* to break or he insta-kills a member of the raid. In addition, every time someone in the raid dies, he gets a stacking buff, which reportedly if more than ~5 people die he's untankable.

Also there haven't been any reports of any AOE tanking encounters from any of the guilds that have been testing it on the PTR.


if true, that's pretty lame.

BFMH was my favorite RTS scenario of any game ever. Cause it was a massive zerg of death that you know you cant beat, and arent expected to, just to deny.

If there ever was an opportunity to highlight the Holy Demonslayers we are, and give them a chance to shine, as very least to shut us up, BFMH is it.


But instead they just copy/pasted Kazzak mechanics and gave him the blood elf racial? What a glorious way to throw away the most potentially glorious encounter the game has ever seen.
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Postby Joanadark » Mon May 14, 2007 11:49 pm

Hey Lore, you're quoted!

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 0990&sid=1

^ Clicky for Lore on EU! :O



http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 0240&sid=1
my thread got copied....then flamed real hard and then ignored.

=-/
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Postby Livyan » Tue May 15, 2007 3:59 am

*Patpats Joana*
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Postby honorshammer » Tue May 15, 2007 6:07 am

I'd just like to add that this issue is important not only to deep endgame tanks but to those who haven't even stepped foot in Kara yet (I'll let you guess which one I am).

As an officer in my guid, I try to think of whats best for my guild as well as for my individual character.

Why should I be taking/rolling/spending DKP on tanking gears in 5 mans, or Kara, or SSC, if we (Paladin Tanks) are not functional in the Eye and Hyjal. If that is the case the ONLY thing I've accomplished is slow down my guild's progression by keeping our Warriors and Druids undergeared for tanking, and myself undergeared, and underpracticed for what I must eventually do, which is healing.

However, if Paladin tanks are indeed functional in the Eye and Hyjal, then what I am doing is giving my guild another well geared and well practiced tank for SSC or beyond.

So this is important not only to those on the bleeding edge of content, but to all Tankadins at any teir of endgame.
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Postby Coldaan » Tue May 15, 2007 9:09 am

it's a great thread you made there Lore!

Although... i must admit I'm a little depressed about the stuff you wrote.^^
Anyway, great threat. There seems to be a lot of impact, so maybe the devs will finally react, and fix the pala-tanking probs until I get into the eye.... which should give them enough time.^^
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Postby Joanadark » Tue May 15, 2007 9:47 am

Lore, do you happen to recall whether or not these mobs were in fact 73?

I heard somewhere that, though not all, a decent majority of the Eye trash mobs are level 72 elites or lower, rather than 73.

The implication being that they cannot crush.

If that is true, perhaps things arent quite as hopeless as it first seems, but simply require a radically different gearset than usual.

Imagine the amount of stam we could stack without needing uncrushability. Or the amount of spell damage to help compensate for severely gimped threat gen.
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Postby Lore » Tue May 15, 2007 9:50 am

Most trash is level 72 at the max, don't believe I've seen a trash mob yet that was level 73. So yes, swapping out some "crush" gear for some stam gear would be our best option there.
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