Questions about Prince/Nightbane/BlockBug

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Questions about Prince/Nightbane/BlockBug

Postby Rashadi » Sun May 13, 2007 10:20 pm

Hey guys, I've been tanking since beta and have recently been feeling the effects of the blocking bug pretty harshly on the end bosses of Karazhan. I find that during phase 2 of prince for example, I simply cannot be kept up as Im getting pummeled with 7k crushing blows, and my warrior offtank usually just handles him.

Tonight we had a bad attempt where he claims to have gotten crushed for 4.4k damage. Now I'm no noob when it comes to understanding the mechanics of tanking, but I simply cannot figure out why there is such a large gap between his crushing and mine. Does anyone else know what theyre getting crushed for during Prince? Am I perhaps bugged beyond the blocking bug, or perhaps my offtank is just full of shit and protecting his pride?

As far as tanking, I've found myself just being a trash tank, as our block bug has sidelined me for end-bosses, and its very frustrated. Has anyone else found themselves in a similar situation? Warriors and Druids are just mitigating damage so much better than I am at the moment that its pointless to not let them just tank.

My guild hasnt made it into 25 man raids yet, so I havent hit the brick wall that Megor/Endure and all the trailblazers hit and gave up on, but Im just curious if something is wrong with my playing/toon, and if others are still tanking Prince/Nightbane week after week.


Here is my armory: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#cha ... &n=Rashadi

Thanks for your time. =D
Rashadi
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 10:06 pm

Re: Questions about Prince/Nightbane/BlockBug

Postby Everlight » Sun May 13, 2007 10:26 pm

Rashadi wrote:Tonight we had a bad attempt where he claims to have gotten crushed for 4.4k damage. Now I'm no noob when it comes to understanding the mechanics of tanking, but I simply cannot figure out why there is such a large gap between his crushing and mine.


I haven't fought Prince, so take this with a pinch of salt.

From what I know, he dual wields, so he could have just crushed your Warrior with his off-hand, which does half the damage of the main hand.
Everlight
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 5:48 pm

Re: Questions about Prince/Nightbane/BlockBug

Postby Rashadi » Sun May 13, 2007 10:31 pm

Everlight wrote:
Rashadi wrote:Tonight we had a bad attempt where he claims to have gotten crushed for 4.4k damage. Now I'm no noob when it comes to understanding the mechanics of tanking, but I simply cannot figure out why there is such a large gap between his crushing and mine.


I haven't fought Prince, so take this with a pinch of salt.

From what I know, he dual wields, so he could have just crushed your Warrior with his off-hand, which does half the damage of the main hand.



Thats a good point. I didnt even think about the crushing being an offhand attack. Do dual wielding bosses suffer the same offhand penalty as players? It's not something I'm familar with actually.
Rashadi
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 10:06 pm

Postby Everlight » Sun May 13, 2007 10:42 pm

Empirical evidence from me fighting Moroes suggests they do. I notice much smaller hits coming from one of his hands than the other, and his miss rate over the course of the whole fight is a lot higher than my Defense would otherwise indicate.
Everlight
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 5:48 pm

Postby Wolfmnjack » Sun May 13, 2007 11:26 pm

Yeah his Offhand hits rather weakly. Mainhand crushes for 6.5-8k I'd say, Offhand for 2k-4,5k.
I usually pop a Greater Stoneshield Potion ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=13455 ) for phase two, what helps a lot. Also if you pay a little bit of attention it's not that hard to avoid the block bug. Just cast consecrate and exorcism after a Mainhand-hit. I never got crushed more often than 2 times the whole fight.
Image
Tanked everything in Karazhan and Gruul's Lair
User avatar
Wolfmnjack
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 3:54 am

Postby Fridmarr » Mon May 14, 2007 1:25 am

Wolfmnjack wrote: Also if you pay a little bit of attention it's not that hard to avoid the block bug. Just cast consecrate and exorcism after a Mainhand-hit. I never got crushed more often than 2 times the whole fight.


So I assume you don't judge, consecrate, or cast exorcism at all in phase 2?
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Wolfmnjack » Mon May 14, 2007 3:58 am

I do, just don't do it right when he hits. The important thing are the mainhand-swings, because they actually do damage. After a mainhand-swing from the prince I judge/consecrate/exorcise. Basically once you figured the timing out you just wait for the cooldowns to finish, because Malchezaar has fixed attack speed as well ;)
Same goes for all other bosses, if you don't wanna get crushed just cast right after you got hit, that's all there is to it.

We killed Malchezaar again just yesterday, on average 3 CBs: one while positioning and two during the rest of the fight.
Image
Tanked everything in Karazhan and Gruul's Lair
User avatar
Wolfmnjack
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 3:54 am

Postby Kaileron » Mon May 14, 2007 4:35 am

There's also a threat on the PTR forum which lists undocumented changes, stating that the block bug will be fixed next patch.

Dunno if that's true or not, but I had noticed that some of the other things he had listed in his post were true, undocumented changes in the PTR so I can't imagine any other reason why he would list that there.

Edited for link addition.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4815&sid=1
"I was killed by a Bestial Wrath'd felguard earlier today."
-Topic on PTR Bugs.
User avatar
Kaileron
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 3:29 am
Location: Florida

Postby eia » Mon May 14, 2007 4:47 am

I've only tanked him once, the only time my guild have gotten him down too, but what I did was to just stop doing all "un-necessary" things in phase 2.
Everyone blew their cooldowns, so we blasted through it pretty fast, and what with the comfortable threat lead I had since everyone else took forced dps-breaks during enfeeble and/or infernals, I had no trouble at all blasting through it on just HS.
Sure, the consecration and exorcism and all are nice I guess, it's a bit of dps at least, but I preferred to survive instead, which I didn't do on our previous attempts...
"It takes two to cuddle."
eia
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Postby Lore » Mon May 14, 2007 7:00 am

Kaileron wrote:There's also a threat on the PTR forum which lists undocumented changes, stating that the block bug will be fixed next patch.

Dunno if that's true or not, but I had noticed that some of the other things he had listed in his post were true, undocumented changes in the PTR so I can't imagine any other reason why he would list that there.

Edited for link addition.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4815&sid=1


Yeah, it's been fixed on the PTR since it went live. Tested it myself.
User avatar
Lore
Global Mod
 
Posts: 7757
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 am

Postby Fridmarr » Mon May 14, 2007 9:28 am

Wolfmnjack wrote:I do, just don't do it right when he hits. The important thing are the mainhand-swings, because they actually do damage. After a mainhand-swing from the prince I judge/consecrate/exorcise. Basically once you figured the timing out you just wait for the cooldowns to finish, because Malchezaar has fixed attack speed as well ;)
Same goes for all other bosses, if you don't wanna get crushed just cast right after you got hit, that's all there is to it.

We killed Malchezaar again just yesterday, on average 3 CBs: one while positioning and two during the rest of the fight.



Are you sure? Did you parse your log? His attack speed in phase 2 is pretty fast, I'd think you'd be vulnerable long enough for his offhand to hit, no matter when you casted. He probably should have crushed you more than twice even without that bug though. A better check might be the number of regular hits you took, you could have gotten pretty lucky on the crushes.

I generally don't cast during phase 2 (depending on my threat lead) and I'll still take a few crushes just from Holy Shield being burned.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Jensaarai » Mon May 14, 2007 9:40 am

Don't cast anything but holy shield imo. Build your threat lead during phase one, and coast phase 2 on holy shield threat. You should be fine. You can't afford the cast bug in that phase :/

And yes, I think your warrior got hit with an offhand crush and was trying to protect his pride :) tell him to grow a pair :P
Jensaarai - 85 Prot Paladin (Lost Isles - US)
Endüre - 85 Prot Warrior (Lost Isles - US)
User avatar
Jensaarai
 
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Yorba Linda, CA

Postby Wolfmnjack » Mon May 14, 2007 10:09 am

Fridmarr wrote:Are you sure? Did you parse your log? His attack speed in phase 2 is pretty fast, I'd think you'd be vulnerable long enough for his offhand to hit, no matter when you casted. He probably should have crushed you more than twice even without that bug though. A better check might be the number of regular hits you took, you could have gotten pretty lucky on the crushes.

I generally don't cast during phase 2 (depending on my threat lead) and I'll still take a few crushes just from Holy Shield being burned.


I'm pretty sure, since SCT marks crushing blows. I didn't look over anything myself but someone said that his SW Stats or some other statistics addon said 3 CBs occured. Maybe I was just lucky, I'll look through the combatlog the next time myself.

But I'd say even when Holy Shield is down there's usually a pretty low chance to get crushed. I'm stacking dodge atm and fully buffed I'm somewhere around 23% and CBs when Redoubt is up are down to ~3-4% I think. I also had a Legacy of the mountain king buff from a book on me which is pretty sweet in that fight. Redoubt is usually up in phase 2, so if you're not casting while he's hitting there shouldn't be a problem. I also use trinkets, stoneform and 2k armor pots in a rotation during phase 2 which helps.

I just generally got the impression that I don't get CBs at a high extent in that fight, also when I'm casting. But that bug being fixed is still pretty necessary :)
Image
Tanked everything in Karazhan and Gruul's Lair
User avatar
Wolfmnjack
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 3:54 am

Postby Rashadi » Mon May 14, 2007 10:30 am

Thanks for the tips, I'll give it a shot next week and see if I cant cruise control phase 2 (our dpers are pretty crazy though) or at least threat between main hand attacks. I hadnt even thought about there being a difference in his attacks, and assumed it was almost physically impossible to cast spells without a second of opening myself up to a crushing.

What about Nightbane? How many Paladins are tanking him successfully? I tanked him for all our learning attempts, but running with 2 healers, I usually just step into healing gear for a bear whos running with 25kish armor, and it goes from nigh impossible to almost easy.
Rashadi
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 10:06 pm

Postby Fridmarr » Mon May 14, 2007 10:32 am

Wolfmnjack wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:Are you sure? Did you parse your log? His attack speed in phase 2 is pretty fast, I'd think you'd be vulnerable long enough for his offhand to hit, no matter when you casted. He probably should have crushed you more than twice even without that bug though. A better check might be the number of regular hits you took, you could have gotten pretty lucky on the crushes.

I generally don't cast during phase 2 (depending on my threat lead) and I'll still take a few crushes just from Holy Shield being burned.


I'm pretty sure, since SCT marks crushing blows. I didn't look over anything myself but someone said that his SW Stats or some other statistics addon said 3 CBs occured. Maybe I was just lucky, I'll look through the combatlog the next time myself.

But I'd say even when Holy Shield is down there's usually a pretty low chance to get crushed. I'm stacking dodge atm and fully buffed I'm somewhere around 23% and CBs when Redoubt is up are down to ~3-4% I think. I also had a Legacy of the mountain king buff from a book on me which is pretty sweet in that fight. Redoubt is usually up in phase 2, so if you're not casting while he's hitting there shouldn't be a problem. I also use trinkets, stoneform and 2k armor pots in a rotation during phase 2 which helps.

I just generally got the impression that I don't get CBs at a high extent in that fight, also when I'm casting. But that bug being fixed is still pretty necessary :)


I run the same buffs (though most of those won't affect CB rate), and I have a least as much, if not more avoidance than you, and redoubt generally gets dropped with Holy Shield. I'd parse your log, I can't speak to SCT, but the built in blizzard version generally does not keep up with the prince in phase 2, his attacks are very fast, plus with his flurry of 3 attacks instantly, that gives quite a backlog of info to be scrolled across the screen. I don't get crushed frequently, usually a few times during phase 2, but that is with keeping casting at a minimum.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Next

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest