the health issue

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

the health issue

Postby Coldaan » Sun May 06, 2007 2:24 am

Hi there fellow protadins!

I just opened up a thread on the german paladin forum asking other protadins to help me get the health issue of the prot paladin fixed. anyone of you is encouraged to read it, but unfortunately it is in german.

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 2383&sid=3

i'l summarize it here:

warriors have 1200 more base HP than your average Paladin. This is in my opinion the most urgent issue concerning pala-tanking, and needs to be fixed somehow. The lack of HP keeps us from from being viable tanks in endgame, not completely of course, but to a certain degree.

some ideas would be:

- ardent defender not leapfrogable
- talent deep in prot that grants us HP for INT (~6HP per point of Int)
- talent deep in prot that grants us HP for Spelldmg
- ability that grants us ~1200HP but reduces our healing somehow
- buff the stamina bonus of sacred duty
- talent deep in prot that grants us stamina for each level we habe gained (~2 per level)

As soon as there are enough replies on my post I will compile the thread and put it on the EU-suggestions forum.

If somebody here is able to post on the US-Forum (which I guess is the case^^) it would be appreciated to put it in there as well then.

Also feel free to reply here with your /sign and further suggestions, be assured that I will put your suggestions and votes in my original thread.
The Prot-Pala Community is small enough so every voice counts.^^
Coldaan
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:12 am

Postby Gideon » Sun May 06, 2007 4:54 am

Well, if it helps, /sign

I've put up a draft of a post I'm going to stick in the english speaking section so you can see my views.

The hp gap is the one difference between us and warriors that affects me the most at the moment. I'm past the uncrushability hurdle and I've not yet reached the tiered gear inadequacy but I will still never MT a 25 man boss that we don't have on farm while my ability to take damage is so much less than a warrior's.

How Blizz fixes this is up to them as long as they fix it.
Gideon
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:12 pm

Postby Lorath » Sun May 06, 2007 10:30 am

Good luck... hope your post can get more attention than the countless others. If Blizz hasn't gotten the clue yet, what says they ever will? :/
Lorath, Human 80 Swedish Viking Tankadin, EU Bloodhoof
www.kingsandaces.eu
Lorath
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:04 am
Location: Sweden

Postby Coldaan » Sun May 06, 2007 1:20 pm

counting 26 votes right now on my post. not too bad for the first day.^^

anyway, thanks for your support guys. in the next couple of days i will try to compile my thread, translate it into english and put it on the suggestions in the german forum, as i have no access to others.

and don't wish me luck, wish US luck.^^
Coldaan
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:12 am

Postby Strom » Sun May 06, 2007 9:10 pm

Here is a talent idea I had for solving our health pool differances in a very "tank/healer" sorta way-

Put Holy Shield back down to a 21 point talent and just remove Blessing of Sanctuary. In place of the 31 point talent spot put:

Sanctuary

Mana Cost- 250
Cast time - Instant
Duration - 20 sec
Cooldown - 3 minutes

The paladin is able to cast holy spells while still retaining his ability to avoid attacks. This ability grants the paladin 50% chance to avoid casting time reduction.

This ability would be a godsend while tanking. The ability to heal oneself while tanking is easily overpowered though so the duration and cooldown would obviously need some tweaks. Plus you can emergency heal other people in the raid with this if needed.
Image
Strom
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:46 am

Postby Coldaan » Sun May 06, 2007 11:57 pm

@ Strom:

Ok, here is the problem: My healing when in tank-equip is rediculously low.^^ I need max avoidance/stamina etc. while tanking, so my +heal is close to none. This also wouldn't change significantly if I had the full T5 set, because all rings/trinkets/sockets I would were would have tanking stats.
Another thing is that the prot tree is so huge that you have no talent points left to put in holy when speccing for tanking.
My flash of light heals for about 500.
My holy light heals for about 2k.
So even if I could heal myself while tanking and still be avoiding those crushings, my healing would not be worth mentioning.^^
Before I forget this, i also don't have enough mana to tank and heal.^^

interesting idea though.^^
Coldaan
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:12 am

Postby Lev » Mon May 07, 2007 12:07 am

There is another problem on selfhealing while tanking... you cannot block, parry or dodge. So you get a 10%+ Chance to not getting hit by the mob... great!

Even with 2.1. The noblock bugfix only works on instant casts!

So please dont even consider to think of maybe healing yourself while tanking... please! :)


Back to Topic:
As i already mentioned in the German WoW Forums, i think your post is not as good as our other ones. Anyway /sign :wink:
Lev
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 11:18 pm
Location: Germany

Postby Coldaan » Mon May 07, 2007 12:29 am

Strom wrote:The paladin is able to cast holy spells while still retaining his ability to avoid attacks.


so witrh this ability you probably could block/parry/dodge while tanking. but still I don't think it would work very well, as I stated above.^^
Coldaan
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:12 am

Postby Fridmarr » Mon May 07, 2007 12:56 am

Lev wrote:There is another problem on selfhealing while tanking... you cannot block, parry or dodge. So you get a 10%+ Chance to not getting hit by the mob... great!


You may want to read his suggestion again.
Fridmarr
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9671
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 am

Postby Lev » Mon May 07, 2007 1:05 am

uuh! Ok, got this one wrong, sorry :)

Anyway, self healing would not realy solve any of our current problems :-/
Lev
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 11:18 pm
Location: Germany

Postby Coldaan » Mon May 07, 2007 5:03 am

i translated my thread now, and putting it on other forums (english EU, american etc) would be appreciated.^^

i will put the thread on the german suggestions forum myself, maybe i will get additional votes there, or even a blue response (which i doubt^^).

so here it is:


There has been lots of discussion going on lately about different aspects/problems of the protection paladin. The main problem is the following:

The Paladin has approx. 1200 base HP less than the warrior. 1200 HP is a lot and it is almost not possible to compensate this gap by gear, mostly because tanks in the same raid usually share the same gear-level.
The HP gap keeps us from being equal to warriors when it comes to tanking in endgame, although equality is intended by the development team.

Me and my fellow Paladins of the German WoW Forum came up with some ideas to solve this serious problem:

- ardent defender not leapfrogable
- talent deep in prot that grants us HP for INT (~6HP per point of Int)
- talent deep in prot that grants us HP for Spelldmg
- ability that grants us ~1200HP but reduces our healing somehow
- buff the stamina bonus of sacred duty
- talent deep in prot that grants us stamina for each level we habe gained (~2 per level)

I really hope this thread will make an impact here, it certainly did on the German Forum, counting roughly 40 replies (most of them positive^^) in about 1 day. Please fellow Paladins support us on that issue, so maybe we will get a solution/answer from the developers.

best regards,
Coldaan, Tankadin of "Der Rat von Dalaran" EU


PS:: I am still sure that eventually we will get a blue answer, even if it will take some time and patience. If we make it to get the issue onto the US forum, there will be a larger impact. Lets not give up on this.^^
Coldaan
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:12 am

Postby Strom » Mon May 07, 2007 6:27 am

Coldaan wrote:@ Strom:

Ok, here is the problem: My healing when in tank-equip is rediculously low.^^ I need max avoidance/stamina etc. while tanking, so my +heal is close to none. This also wouldn't change significantly if I had the full T5 set, because all rings/trinkets/sockets I would were would have tanking stats.
Another thing is that the prot tree is so huge that you have no talent points left to put in holy when speccing for tanking.
My flash of light heals for about 500.
My holy light heals for about 2k.
So even if I could heal myself while tanking and still be avoiding those crushings, my healing would not be worth mentioning.^^
Before I forget this, i also don't have enough mana to tank and heal.^^

interesting idea though.^^


I think you underestimate how useful 500 more life every 1.5 sec for 20 sec could be (or even 2K every 2.5 on harder hitting bosses). Especially since this would still be causing threat and maintain your avoidance. It should be noted as well that Blizzard seems dead-set on mainting high +spell damage and +intellect on our sets. This would work well with that.

At any rate, I am glad your pallys from the EU forums are keeping the suggestions going on your end as well.
Image
Strom
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:46 am

Postby Coldaan » Mon May 07, 2007 7:19 am

Strom wrote:At any rate, I am glad your pallys from the EU forums are keeping the suggestions going on your end as well.


we are doing our best.^^
Coldaan
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:12 am

Postby Romie » Mon May 07, 2007 7:46 am

i think you have some good ideas but GL with getting blizzard to use logic.

speccing engineering can really help, but you do loose alot of mitigation from loosing def trinkets.

heres a screenshot of my hp in ssc. most my gear is all easily attainable boe epics/5 man blues/faction rewards apart from the nef chestpiece.

after next patch with a star of elune and the 18stam meta gem you will get a 105 stam eng tank help with kick ass stats.

Image
Image Image
Romie
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 4:25 am

Postby Coldaan » Mon May 07, 2007 7:56 am

wow gz on that HP.

but i am wondering, with so much hp, how's your avoidance (def,parry,dodge,block..) doing?^^
Coldaan
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:12 am

Next

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest