GamerGate stuff

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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Fivelives » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:16 pm

I'm a bit late to the party on this, but I don't agree with GG. The "movement" is forever tainted by the doucheresins who have used it as a platform for hate. Period, full stop, end of discussion. Either disassociate yourselves with the GG movement, or accept being painted with the same brush as the rest of the tools giving YOU a bad name.

However, I also think that journalism - and games journalism in particular - is in desperate need of an overhaul. The reason I think games journalism needs an overhaul is simple: publishers are allowed to tell journalists specifically what they can and cannot say about the games they're reviewing in their reviews. I can understand the argument that people want spoiler-free reviews, but that should go without saying and reviewers shouldn't need to be told that.

That's not what the publishers are saying though - they're saying "you're only allowed to comment on X, Y, and Z parts of our game, and we want you to specifically highlight points A, B, and C" and they hold all the power. If you don't follow their directions, your outlet doesn't get to review games by that publisher anymore, or you get beat to the press by other reviewers who DO follow those directions. And then your outlet goes under.

That's not right. I don't care if developers and journalists sleep together (because honestly, let's face it - given the hours that devs work and the limited social circle they inhabit, it's not unexpected to see journalists and devs sleeping together. Frankly it's also none of our business, beyond maybe the requirement that journalists either recuse themselves from reviewing that devs game or post a "full disclosure" note somewhere in the article). Hell, I don't care if devs or journalists like to bang horses in Tijuana on their spare time. I have yet to see a single incident of what GG is claiming turn out to be true. What I do care about is the carrot/stick that publishers hold over review outlets, and how that influences peoples decision whether or not to spend a not-insignificant amount of money on something that can turn out to be an absolute turd.

Let's take Assassins Creed: Unity for example. Despite the game being an unpolished, bugged-to-unplayable turd, there are 0 - ZERO - negative reviews of it according to metacritic (at least for the PS4 anyway, haven't looked at the Xbone reviews). None of the reviews I saw mentioned the issues, and one of them even went so far as to say "Apart from some minor hiccups in large crowds and certain Synchronization points, there weren’t any annoying performance issues" (IGN.com). That right there is a fairly illustrative example of everything wrong with the games journalism industry today, and this isn't a new issue.

For past examples, look at pretty much everything Peter Molyneaux claimed about the Fable franchise and how much of that turned out to be nothing more than smoke that was being blown up our collective asses. Yet journalists - who I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume are not stupid people kept lapping it up and asking for more. Why? I doubt it was because they believed a word that came out of Molyneaux's mouth, but rather because they are forced to be a willing part of the incestuous hype machine fostered by the publisher-journalist relationship. And it's all to sell print copies or get page clicks for their publications.

THAT. That right there, is 100% what GamerGate should be focused on. Not manchild rants about "THIS IS OUR CLUBHOUSE NO GIRLZ ALOUD" misogynist bullshit. Not harrassment. Not forcing advertisers to pull ads off of websites that criticize the GG movement. But actual, legitimate issues.

And I repeat: anyone who willingly identifies themselves as a "gamergater" deserves to be tarred with the same brush as the rest of the manchildren involved in the movement. If you don't like the movement, and what it's doing, then PICK A DIFFERENT MOVEMENT and let the toxic bullshit die a miserable, lonely death alone in its own little corner of the internet. Get it out of the media, get it out of the public consciousness, and once it's not getting any attention anymore it will do just that - go out not with a bang, but a whimper.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Nooska » Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:55 am

Anyone who willingly identifies as a republican, deserves to be tarred with the same brush as those [conscensusly stupid idea providers].

Just saying - it is a fallacy in a selfidentifying movement to require the majority (last I saw it was still a minority doing the bad stuff) to disassociate themselves and make a new movement (whoch would rather quickly get tarred y the same brush regardless).

To be honest, I think the biggest issue I have with GG (as a movement) is the use of the word "Gate" - very american, very overused, very annoying.
I never have gotten into understanding the issues, and from what I've seen either side in this dirty was have some very extreme extremists, doing dispicable and probably unlawful things.

Really it comes down to; if you wouldn't say /do it in a townhall meeting with 'everyone' there, don't do it on the internet, be that twitter, facebook or a chan.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Flex » Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:22 pm

Nooska wrote:Anyone who willingly identifies as a republican, deserves to be tarred with the same brush as those [conscensusly stupid idea providers].

Just saying - it is a fallacy in a selfidentifying movement to require the majority (last I saw it was still a minority doing the bad stuff) to disassociate themselves and make a new movement (whoch would rather quickly get tarred y the same brush regardless).


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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Fivelives » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:01 pm

Nooska wrote:Anyone who willingly identifies as a republican, deserves to be tarred with the same brush as those [conscensusly stupid idea providers].


That analogy doesn't work here - we aren't electing gamergaters.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Shoju » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:49 pm

Not saying Anita is hitler, but I'm going to make us Churchhill, and Jack Thomspson Stalin in this analogy, soo.......

Yeah, whatever. This is the kind of shit that drives me up the wall, and the reason that I've started muting / blocking / unfollowing.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:58 pm

Yeah, that was pretty stupid.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Nooska » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:19 pm

Fivelives wrote:
Nooska wrote:Anyone who willingly identifies as a republican, deserves to be tarred with the same brush as those [conscensusly stupid idea providers].


That analogy doesn't work here - we aren't electing gamergaters.


Well, we aren't electing the republicans (or [insert group here]) for office, the analogy is perfectly valid, as the selfidentified republicans (that) are just as stupid should then smear the whole party because they are doing and saying stupid things.

We are talking about a large group of people in either case. Some of which are doing or saying stupid things. That they say such does not mean the rest of the group is tarnished.

While A is part of group B, group B is not comprised of A - basic logic here.

That argument is one I've seen in regards to GG, and a lot of other stuff - staying with the political analogy, remember I'm a member of a socialist party, and selfidentifying as a socialist - that does not mean that every other selfidentified socialist spekas for me, or that I should abandon that term (and find another?) because of it.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:54 pm

OTOH... I'm a member of the military... one of the things they drill into us is that we are a representative of the ENTIRE military. If we say something/take a stance on something... we have to include a disclaimer that "these views are my own and not that of the military/government."

Anything we do in uniform can be misconstrued as condoned by the military/government. Even if it's only a small group of people. Just being a member of the military causes people to assume many things about us (depending on their particular views of the military.) I get painted with a particular brush regardless of how I actually feel about a subject, just because I'm associated with the military.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Nooska » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:02 am

Skye1013 wrote:OTOH... I'm a member of the military... one of the things they drill into us is that we are a representative of the ENTIRE military. If we say something/take a stance on something... we have to include a disclaimer that "these views are my own and not that of the military/government."

Anything we do in uniform can be misconstrued as condoned by the military/government. Even if it's only a small group of people. Just being a member of the military causes people to assume many things about us (depending on their particular views of the military.) I get painted with a particular brush regardless of how I actually feel about a subject, just because I'm associated with the military.


We have the same provisions in our party laws, but our party and the m ilitary have a thing in common that sets them apart from things lige GG - they are organisations that you can be excluded from, so I agree with your point, but I don't think our situations in that regard (military, party abnd what other organisations we can think of) are comparable.

(look at us going off on a tangent here)
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Shoju » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:22 pm

On the military point, related to gamergate, Roguestargamez on twitter is a former marine, and presents as a shitbag of a human being. His twitter and facebook feeds are abysmal. I know a few marine gamers who would like to "donkey punch" him. I'm not sure how they mean that, because I only know that as a.... Bizarre sexual reference.
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Re: GamerGate stuff

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:36 pm

well I know what a "donkey kick" is...

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