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[suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby Thels » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:34 pm

halabar wrote:For enchants, it's the non-tier slots will be enchantable, and giving an ilvl boost to those slots would make those slots overvalued. You would have to nerf that gear to compensate and that causes other issues.


No, you don't? Enchants don't actually raise the ilvl of a specific item. They would simply be a bonus to the overall ilvl. Everyone has the same amount of slots they can enchant, so it doesn't matter which slots, and the items that are being enchanted don't need to be devaluated for that.

Gems are a little different, but then again, gemslots will be an actual bonus and not count towards the ilvl, so if someone has a socket in their chest, and doesn't gem it, it's practically the same as the version without a socket. If they would plug a gem into it, it would actually be a slightly better version than a similar item without a gemslot.

Overall, what this would bring is an incentive for people to enchant/gem their gear, and allow those that do enchant/gem their gear slightly easier access into both hardcoded ilvl requirement content and pugs.

Before cross-realm normal/heroic I checked people out on armory, which quickly mentions if someone is missing enchants and gems. Since it's cross-realm, I rely on openraid's information, which unfortunately doesn't tell me if someone enchanted/gemmed properly.
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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby Koatanga » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:44 pm

halabar wrote:And frankly, for most of the LFR crowd, a few enchants and maybe one or two gems is not going to make much difference.

This is a very good point. Giving a Donald enchanted epics is not going to make him any better at staying out of the fire or knowing how to play his class properly. That's the difference between LFR and the people who clear norm-mode raiding on the first week of release, not some missing enchants. Would proper enchants help him? Perhaps, for the brief period he's alive, but I doubt it would make a difference to the overall success of the raid.
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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby Thels » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:19 am

But anything you can toss at that, you can toss at the whole concept of ilvl.

The big problem is that gear is something you can easily check out. You can see that person X has a certain level of gear. Skill is just a lot harder to assign a number to. People quickly come down to "Must have curve" to measure a player's skill, which is far from accurate, but about as close as you can get. You could take it a little deeper if you check someone's armory, since it'll show you how many times someone killed something. If someone has 1 Garrosh normal kill, and didn't kill any other normal bosses, nor killed any bosses on flex/heroic, then he most likely bought a boost.

A score based on the amount of times you killed a boss might help. For example, for each boss, killing it on LFR awards 1 point, killing it on Flex awards 2 points, killing it on Normal awards 3 points and killing it on Heroic awards 4 points. Garrosh is double the amount of points because he's the endboss. Per boss, you only count the 5 highest difficulty kills.

Someone who has only done LFR but has done it consistently has a total of 15*1*5=75 points. Someone who has been farming heroic for a while has a total of 15*4*5=300 points. Everyone else falls somewhere in between there. Someone with LFR on farm and one Garrosh normal boost has 79 points, while someone with flex on farm except no garrosh kills (and doesn't bother with LFR) has 130 points.
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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby halabar » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:02 pm

Theis, I think you are looking for the proving grounds requirement... :-)
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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby oldboyz » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:14 am

Thels wrote:A score based on the amount of times you killed a boss might help. For example, for each boss, killing it on LFR awards 1 point, killing it on Flex awards 2 points, killing it on Normal awards 3 points and killing it on Heroic awards 4 points. Garrosh is double the amount of points because he's the endboss. Per boss, you only count the 5 highest difficulty kills.


OQueue addon has a "dragonkillpoint" score
-but very hard to find the exact calculation : based on OQ activity or armory inport? what about old/latest boss weight and flex/nm/heroic?)
-it is account based (all my toons have same DKP) : which is good&fair for serious altalholic. but abuse can be done with a new toon you don't yet master
-it penalizes fresh raider with not yet any solid background, even if it a very good player

halabar wrote:Theis, I think you are looking for the proving grounds requirement... :-)

proving ground is indeed quite a very first cap skill check (but class are not equal :/ easier to do with some, harder with other)

-as RL i never look at it because it is a painful information to find (but yes, i would be a dream to have a color code or little symbol in the main character window so you instant see how far a player is good)
-i did the proving ground only 2 month ago, no time to test it earlier. is that mean it would become an early mandatary stuff?
i already anticipate how painfull it will be : once you start it, you can't stop after a first try and be shamely tagged bronze..
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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby Thels » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:55 am

oldboyz wrote:-as RL i never look at it because it is a painful information to find (but yes, i would be a dream to have a color code or little symbol in the main character window so you instant see how far a player is good)


Exactly. Having it show up in an easy to find spot would help a lot. It still doesn't help if players don't know the encounters, though, so it's not a replacement. For guild recruitment I could totally consider checking a player's Proving Grounds. For finding someone to quickly join a pug, not so much, too much of a hassle and not telling me what I need to know.
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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby oldboyz » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:37 am

regarding the most intersting information i need when i need to recruit a PU is quite simple : i look at his armory about his history raid (i tolerate much lower ilv or no xp if the guy has good past xp)

so just thinking a new tab [pve] in character window with key pve information would be perfect
it would make sense as there is already a [pvp] tab

in this tab, i would enjoy to see :
-the proving ground progression
-my tier progression as in the web armory (number of kill by difficulty)



#regaring koatanga & halabar on donalds : indeed wont change much, but
-with a little higher ilv cap required to enter in the various place : we may avoid the worse of them until they spent a very long time in basic content to be full geared
-might some of them realize it, and start improve (principe of incentive ^^). it is a first step, far from righ stat&reforge (anyway, it will be simple in wod) and very far from optimal rotation/skill/learn fight.. but hey! Roma has not been built in 1 day xD
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Re: [suggestion] better ilv calculation ?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:00 pm

oldboyz wrote:#regaring koatanga & halabar on donalds : indeed wont change much, but
-with a little higher ilv cap required to enter in the various place : we may avoid the worse of them until they spent a very long time in basic content to be full geared
-might some of them realize it, and start improve (principe of incentive ^^). it is a first step, far from righ stat&reforge (anyway, it will be simple in wod) and very far from optimal rotation/skill/learn fight.. but hey! Roma has not been built in 1 day xD

LFR doesn't reward with loot depending on useful participation in the fight; it's just random numbers.

A Donald who runs LFR every week is going to get gear just as fast as anyone else doing LFR. Sure, your main will get ahead due to non-LFR raiding, but given the vast amount of grinding in Mists, working folks like myself had little time to develop alts, so LFR was pretty much it.
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