Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Belloc » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:34 pm

Io.Draco wrote:Imagine though you are a new or returning player without a guild, you have to do LFR to get gear and you even have to do Flex to a degree before being able to even step foot in normal raiding with a guild.

Okay, now imagine that you are a new or returning player WITH a guild. You still have to either run LFR OR collect valor for gear purchases, run Timeless Isle for catchup epics and then run Flex, right?

If you're a new player, you'll be able to gear up just as fast as anyone else at the start of the expansion. If you're a returning player, you have to take advantage of the catch-up mechanisms, guild or not. Hopefully they put plenty of those in the game with WoD so that we aren't "forced" to do LFR... but, let's be honest here, if they don't, you only have yourself to blame. I've only ever "quit" late in a tier and I've never had to take advantage of catch up mechanics.

If you're going to quit, of course you're going to have to temporarily work harder to catch up... and why should it be any different? Does it make sense that you should be able to skip all of the introductory content and just jump right into the latest content?

You know what I would do, right now, if I were a returning player? I'd run Timeless Isle until I was full on 496 gear (with a 476 weapon via timeless coins) and then I'd start joining ToT groups on Openraid or OQueue while farming valor for 522 epics. Yes, I'd probably also do the current LFR, but it wouldn't be for long. A short while later, I'd get started on Flex modes. Finally, I'd be ready for Normals/heroics. And I wouldn't complain about it because it's my own fault that I fell behind. I also wouldn't be complaining because it'd only take about a month, tops, for me to be caught up and ready to go. I say this because, surprise surprise, I had to catch my warlock up after spending most of the first tier with him sitting at level 85.

I'm sorry if this came off as rude, but I see people complaining about being forced to do content or how hard it is to catch up as a returning player... and it's really not. I've had to play the catch-up game (on my alt) in every expansion so far and it has never, not once, been even remotely challenging. Either I've got extremely good luck or I'm putting actual work into it while other people are complaining about how hard it is. I'll let you guess which one I think it is.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Io.Draco » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:40 pm

If you're going to quit, of course you're going to have to temporarily work harder to catch up..


Of course, but look back at BC or even Wrath. You did heroics, got badges/points, got gear with badges/points.

What you did not do was run stripped down versions of raids you want to do later on...unless we talk of Wrath with it's heroic versions of raids and how 10 man normal was puggable.

Timeless works sure, and I DO NOT MIND THAT, what I DO mind is LFR, and why would you NOT do LFR while also doing timeless isle?

My point was not that it's "difficult" it's piss easy compared to what was previously, but why would you raid normally after doing LFR? What's the incentive?

The only real reason, besides the challenge, is the social aspect that you get from playing in a guild.
Last edited by Io.Draco on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Belloc » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:47 pm

Io.Draco wrote:
If you're going to quit, of course you're going to have to temporarily work harder to catch up..


Of course, but look back at BC or even Wrath. You did heroics, got badges/points, got gear with badges/points.

What you did not do was run stripped down versions of raids you want to do later on...unless we talk of Wrath with it's heroic versions of raids.

Timeless works sure, and I DO NOT MIND THAT, what I DO mind is LFR.

Then don't run it. Going off what Blizzard has said, it sounds to me like Valor gear will be making a comeback (my reasoning being that they mentioned the possibility of removing justice, leaving valor, while also mentioning that they're not sure if item upgrades will return. In other words, the only other thing to spend valor on is gear), so there's that. There are also crafted items, previous raid tiers (if you're a returning player, you're probably returning in a later tier, right? Otherwise 5-mans would be enough to gear you up), and reputation gear. Oh, and they also suggested, in an off-hand way, that we'd be getting multiple tiers of 5-mans (in other words, expect new 5-mans to come with certain patches), which is another catch-up mechanism.

So, when WoD comes, I expect this to be a viable catch-up strategy: Spend the first week running 5 mans until you have enough 5-man gear and valor to put yourself up to the level of the first tier of content. Spend the end of that week and then later week(s) running normal (flex) modes of the first tier of content. Do this for a couple of weeks and then start running heroic (normal) modes of the first tier while running normal (flex) modes of the next/current tier while still collecting valor gear. Bam, you're caught up and you never stepped foot in LFR.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Io.Draco » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:49 pm

How about just removing LFR then? What's the purpose of it if you don't have to run it to get into raiding.

Also while your argument of "don't do it then" might fly with old returning players it doesn't work with new players. Why would they purposely avoid content in the game you are paying money for on monthly basis?
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Amirya » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:12 pm

I think you missed the point you just stated.

You don't have to do LFR to get into raiding. It helps, but it's not a requirement or an attunement.

My roommate did a Flex this weekend with my normal group, he only had one piece of LFR gear from the first wing. We cleared out wings 3 and 4, and though he had to step out for Garrosh due to low dps (lovely lag and unfamiliarity), he considers it a success. He picked up three weapons from six bosses.

He has never seen wing 2 of Siege. In any difficulty.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:48 pm

Io.Draco wrote:How about just removing LFR then? What's the purpose of it if you don't have to run it to get into raiding.


Different target audience.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Io.Draco » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:11 pm

Yeah as if players outside that target audience will never use that system.


Right....difficulty levels do NOT WORK FOR MMOs. You have scenarios, use them for this "target audience".
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Worldie » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:48 pm

LFR is not a raid. LFR is solo play that requires no effort. LFR is a glorified heroic dungeon. Has absolutely nothing to do with organized raiding.
From what you say, if they called it "glorified scenario", you'd have no problem in doing it.

You should know that. Many people actually atm just join LFR and go afk or autowalk. For how desplicable it can seemb, you can do it, and no, you won't get kicked.

Also, as people said, LFR is not mandatory. Timeless gear is 7 ilvl higher than LFR drops, and is farmable (faster if lucky). There's also several 522/553 craftables available.

The only thing you may want to really do LFR for, is a Weapon. You can fill every other slot with 535+ gear without setting a single foot in LFR.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby halabar » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:19 pm

Io.Draco wrote:Yeah as if players outside that target audience will never use that system.


Right....difficulty levels do NOT WORK FOR MMOs. You have scenarios, use them for this "target audience".


OK, all heroic.. everyone else gets scenarios. happy? :roll:

You are looking at the raid levels from your own very very narrow viewpoint, of a hardcore raider that will spend 30 hours a week if Blizz allows it. Most others don't do that.

LFR is tourist mode, as stated at Blizzcon. It is meant for those that will never do other raiding. It's also meant as a catch-up for those who need some more skill, or some more gear.

It's not meant for the hardcore that will grind for 20 hours for a 2 point ilvl upgrade.

We already had this argument a month ago, let's not go there again... please....
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Teranoid » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:06 pm

Wow this thread got stupid in a hurry.

But no seriously if you're going to start the LFR bullshit again go read the other 70 threads instead of trying to stir up shit again.
Last edited by Teranoid on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Amirya » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:33 pm

Teranoid wrote:Wow this thread got stupid in a hurry.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:43 pm

Io.Draco wrote:Yeah as if players outside that target audience will never use that system.

Right....difficulty levels do NOT WORK FOR MMOs. You have scenarios, use them for this "target audience".


People outside the target audience are free to also use the system -- what's the problem there? You remove something that caters to an audience -- then what does that audience get?

Scenarios address a different target audience and have their own niche. What's the problem there?

Multiple difficulty levels seems to be working just fine for Blizzard, although they're still tweaking and refining -- much to their credit and betterment of their game. You'll have to provide some support for your blanket assertion to be convincing.

And yeah this conversation comes up again about every other quarter, or whenever Blizz introduces a new tweak to the raiding system. I don't think Io was around for the last one; it's been a while since he's been active.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby bldavis » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:56 pm

its the same dam argument we have every couple of months...i remember hearing the same ones in T9 with the advent of heroic raids, Cata when 10 and 25 didnt drop different loot, etc

face it, as raiders we are all in the 10% of the wow pop that does endgame
heroic raiders are something like 10% of that population
but yet there is always a heroic raider (it almost always is a heroic raider, but not always, sometimes its a casual/newb) that argues either the sanctity of raiding is too accessible and if they want access they need to get better, or that its too hard to get into raiding

before i launch into more of a rant, im stopping myself here...just give up the idea that raiding is only for the heroic raiders...the heroic raiding is for you guys, us that do normal/flex/LFR arent taking a dam thing away from you.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby Worldie » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:22 pm

But but my shinies.

On a side note, there's going to be 2 legendaryes in the next exp, one similar to cloaks (aka, accessible to anyone), and one "harder to get", presumably that will require at least heroic clear if not mythic kills.
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Re: Mythic is NOT a HARDER difficulty than current Heroic!!!

Postby bldavis » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:35 pm

Worldie wrote:But but my shinies.

are still your shinies despite the fact that a filthy casual has a similar, but less powerful, version

the only viable argument is the legendary cloaks and being able to get them purely from LFR...which is great for those of us with alts
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
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