Warlords of Draenor

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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:49 am

I wonder what abilities Paladins will lose... I really hope they don't mess with our Hand spells.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Era » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:30 am

Better not touch our wings!
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Darielle » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:08 am

Newsom wrote:I wonder what abilities Paladins will lose... I really hope they don't mess with our Hand spells.


I doubt they'll change Hand spells. Most likely they'll just bake in AW into Ret GoAK or remove AW and bake the graphic elsewhere.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:20 am

I dunno, in a raid night I for one use almost all of my spells on my bars. Maybe not Turn Evil so much, but even Blinding Light is useful on Klaxxi.

That said I was helping a friend set up her Prot spec the other day and she was complaining she was running out of keybinds.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:28 pm

Honestly speaking at the moment on any of my 90s I really ran out of keybindings and have to click several CDs due to no reliable key to bind them to.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby culhag » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 pm

Darielle wrote:
Newsom wrote:I wonder what abilities Paladins will lose... I really hope they don't mess with our Hand spells.

I doubt they'll change Hand spells. Most likely they'll just bake in AW into Ret GoAK or remove AW and bake the graphic elsewhere.

I think hands spells are the easiest target for us. They're completely unique abilities. Hand of Protection in particular can be very powerful on some fights.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Darielle » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:06 am

I dunno, in a raid night I for one use almost all of my spells on my bars. Maybe not Turn Evil so much, but even Blinding Light is useful on Klaxxi.

That said I was helping a friend set up her Prot spec the other day and she was complaining she was running out of keybinds.


WHat I mean is that Ret in particular has always been a spec that's very focused on stacking multiple cooldowns, so when they're looking to remove that kind of thing, they'll probably consolidate.

Take something like this for example:
Avenging Wrath is no longer a baseline ability.

Guardian of Ancient Kings has been readjusted within specs -
Ret = Crusader of Ancient Kings, combines the effects of AW and current Ret Guardian, perhaps minus the Str boost which will just be baked into spell coefficients baseline.
Prot = Guardian of Ancient Kings, unchanged
Holy = whatever, combine Divine Favour with current Guardian or something

Then Sanctified Wrath is reworked a little bit to extend Crusader of Ancient Kings for Ret and do the HoW thing, and for Prot it gives a clicky with Avenging Wrath that reduces Judgment cd like it does now.

End result:
No GoAK/AW stacking for the norm, or HA/AW stacking. Removes a level of macro and button that serves similar purpose.

That Hand spells are unique and have a purpose is one of the main reasons they most likely won't be touched. They're not trying to remove unique utility. They're trying to consolidate similar-purpose or exceptionally niche abilities, which Hands aren't, maybe you could argue Hand of Salvation is more obsolete now. Blinding Light might qualify, because it's basically mainly useful with the glyph. HoW might be removed for Prot and made Ret-only. HW might be removed since you can essentially consider it equivalent to Consecration. Devotion Aura might be Holy-only IF Blizzard made some commitment to reworking raid cooldowns, they've currently not really indicated so, depending on how you interpret https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/4 ... 1447056384
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:33 am

Who the hell macros HA to AW? The main point in taking it is to get an extra defensive cooldown. Sure it can be nice for burst damage too, but that isn't the point of the talent. It'd be really weird to not have any damage increase cooldown at all as Prot.

I could totally see them consolidating GoAK and AW for Ret somehow though.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:16 am

I'd think the most likely change is actually keeping Avenging Wrath across the board and making GoAK Prot-only.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:30 am

Avenging Wrath is too much of a iconic paladin skill, I don't really see them merging it into something else. Rather they will bake the Goatk effect for ret and holy to AW, and for tanks keep it separate, as tank cooldowns are a different from DPS cds.
(tanks don't stack cds on top of each other, DPS do)
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Darielle » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:16 am

Newsom wrote:Who the hell macros HA to AW? The main point in taking it is to get an extra defensive cooldown. Sure it can be nice for burst damage too, but that isn't the point of the talent. It'd be really weird to not have any damage increase cooldown at all as Prot.

I could totally see them consolidating GoAK and AW for Ret somehow though.


Stacking them doesn't require macro'ing them. It's more about when you time AW - you're best off popping AW when you pop HA anyway for most situations when you can; on fights that you can just stack them on the pull with the prepot, even better. For harsh dps check portions of fights, basically everyone works things out to have both of them available TO stack.

Avenging Wrath is too much of a iconic paladin skill, I don't really see them merging it into something else. Rather they will bake the Goatk effect for ret and holy to AW


Are you saying that the spell name Avenging Wrath is too iconic? Or that the effect (wings) which could exist either way to whichever side they merge it is iconic?

The only reason I see them not particularly caring about AW itself is because the only really iconic part about AW is the wings, and you can bake that graphic into anything appropriate - such as whatever the name of the merged offensive cooldown would be, or <insert spell, minor glyph here>
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:41 am

Talking about the wings graphic, not really about its effect or name.
If they are to merge GoatK and AW I can see them keeping the AW graphic over the guardian one.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Darielle » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:16 pm

Worldie wrote:Talking about the wings graphic, not really about its effect or name.
If they are to merge GoatK and AW I can see them keeping the AW graphic over the guardian one.


Why would they have to choose? ALL THE SPELL EFFECTS
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:52 pm

Would be kind of silly to merge a talent with a baseline ability.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Darielle » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:00 pm

Not sure which talent would be merged with a baseline, but it's probably no sillier than a baseline ability becoming a talent.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Worldie wrote:GoatK

Goat Kings?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Darielle » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:34 pm

Guardian of any the Kings.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Thaumatrope » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:26 am

KysenMurrin wrote:
Worldie wrote:GoatK

Goat Kings?


Guardian of ALL THE KINGS.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Zalaria » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:34 am

Thaumatrope wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:
Worldie wrote:GoatK

Goat Kings?


Guardian of ALL THE KINGS.


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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:18 pm

We’re planning some changes to racial traits for Warlords of Draenor. We recently posted a Dev Watercooler (Pruning the Garden of War) that dives deeper into the philosophy behind these changes, and now we wanted to give you the full details of what’s coming.

In order to keep racials more in line with one another, we’ve decided to bring down a couple of high outliers, then establish a fair baseline and bring the other racials up to that. We’re accomplishing this by improving old passives, replacing obsolete ones, and adding a few new ones where necessary. Ultimately, our goal is to achieve much better parity among races.

There aren’t any current plans to change Pandaren or Worgen racials.

Blood Elf
Arcane Acuity is a new racial passive ability that increases Critical Strike chance by 1%.
Arcane Torrent now restores 20 Runic Power for Death Knights (up from 15 Runic Power), 1 Holy Power for Paladins, or 3% of Mana for Mage, Priest, Warlocks (up from 2% of Mana). Other aspects of the ability remain unchanged.

Draenei
Heroic Presence has been redesigned. It no longer increases Hit by 1%, and instead increases Strength, Agility, and Intellect, scaling with character level.
Gift of the Naaru now heals for the same amount over 5 seconds (down from 15 seconds).

Dwarf
Crack Shot has been removed (was 1% Expertise with ranged weapons).
Mace Specialization (was 1% Expertise with maces) has been replaced with Might of the Mountain.
Might of the Mountain is a new racial passive ability that increases Critical Strike bonus damage and healing dealt by 2%.

Stoneform now also removes magic and curse effects in addition to poison, disease, and bleed effects, along with reducing damage taken by 10% for 8 seconds. It remains unusable while CC'd.

Gnome
Expansive Mind now increases maximum Mana, Energy, Rage, and Runic Power by 5% instead of only increasing maximum Mana.
Escape Artist’s cooldown has been reduced to 1 minute (down from 1.5 minutes).
Shortblade Specialization (was 1% Expertise with one-handed swords and daggers) has been replaced with Nimble Fingers.
Nimble Fingers is a new racial passive ability that increases Haste by 1%.

Goblin
Time is Money now grants a 1% increase to Haste (up from only attack speed and spell haste).

Human
Mace Specialization has been removed (was 1% Expertise with maces).
Sword Specialization has been removed (was 1% Expertise with swords).
The Human Spirit has been redesigned. It no longer increases Spirit by 3%, and instead now increases two secondary stats by an amount scaling with character level. You can choose which two secondary stats it increases. This has not yet been implemented.

Night Elf
Quickness now also increases movement speed by 2% in addition to increasing Dodge chance by 2%.
Touch of Elune is a new passive ability which increases Haste by 1% at night, and Critical Strike Chance by 1% during the day.

Orc
Axe Specialization has been removed (was 1% Expertise with axes).
Hardiness now reduces the duration of Stun effects by 10% (down from 15%).

Tauren
Brawn is a new racial passive ability that increases Critical Strike bonus damage and healing done by 2%.
Endurance now increases Stamina by an amount scaling with character level, instead of increasing Base Health by 5%.

Troll
Berserking now increases Haste by 15% (down from 20%).
Beast Slaying now increases XP earned from killing Beasts by 20% instead of increasing damage dealt versus Beasts by 5%.
Dead Eye has been removed (was 1% Expertise with ranged weapons).

Undead
Will of the Forsaken’s cooldown has been increased to 3 minutes (up from 2 minutes).
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Kal » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:36 pm

Tauren are the master race!
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:45 pm

Kal wrote:Tauren are the master race!


+1
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby bldavis » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:59 pm

Kal wrote:Tauren are the master race!

i was thinking the same about the dwarves....racial that removes all debuff types including bleed?
hell of a cd
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:13 pm

Blood Elfs are weak, feeble. Might racechange for once.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Kal » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:47 pm

I've been writing up a skeleton of a post on class/race optimization for when all this gets hammered out, definitely going to post it pre-WoD, but after beta, about when the stats get figured out for at least most of the class/specs. It occurs to me I should also post a cautionary bit of rambling about optimizing race selection based on these bonuses, even after they get figured out. I just really don't think the bonuses matter as much as people seem to think they should. Far more important is whether a player likes that particular race, for whatever reason. While I don't think other reasons can be quantified, easily or at all, I do think they significantly outweigh race bonuses while a player is at the character creation screen.
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