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Warlords of Draenor

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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Fetzie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:12 am

Era wrote:To me it's more an ideological issue than a practical one. It's a "pay to win" feature (by my definition something that gives an unfair advantage to someone who can't buy it), and while practically, sure, there might not be any serious ramifications (not that much to win other than time), I just don't approve. When I hear how many alts some people on this forum have leveled, I cant help but think "Hey, good job". That'll be gone. As for the "lack of skill" issue, well, to some degree it surely is going to affect LFR and dugeons? Besides, this game has got enough micro transactions as it is, for a game with a subscription.


But how much learning do you actually DO while levelling? I can level a character from 85 to 90 practically in my sleep. I then look at the "core abilities" pane, and can do 100k dps in less gear than most of the people in LFR that can't break 50k that went through the same levelling process. This won't change how good people are at max level, because most people don't give a flying toss about how good they are.

You don't "win" anything by having a paid boost to 90. We've had paid boosts to 60 via RAF and it didn't cause the universe to implode. The Scroll of Resurrection was a paid boost to 80 for long-term ex-subscribers. Also, don't forget that we're going to get a "free" level 90 boost with the Warlords of Draenor purchase.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby lythac » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:06 am

Fetzie wrote:But how much learning do you actually DO while levelling? I can level a character from 85 to 90 practically in my sleep. I then look at the "core abilities" pane, and can do 100k dps in less gear than most of the people in LFR that can't break 50k that went through the same levelling process.


I'm nearing the end of leveling my mage 86-90 on the timeless isle. Find small grubs, go max range, cast blizzard, recast blizzard, recast blizzard, get hit by a couple of poison bolts get insane XP (22k per mob, they come in 10s). I am learning absolutely nothing on how to play him. Going to be about 502 ilvl as soon as I ding (got one burden, need to go get the one from chest) and will have enough coins (have 12k atm) for the 489 weapon* once I get round the chests. I'm going to check with the mage in my guild to see if Icy-veins is any good for mages and if it is read that. Then straight to SoO LFR for me.

*I may not get the 489 weapon first week, will be coin rolling on Sha for tier chest/weapon so may hold back and gamble for Burdens.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby lythac » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:31 am

Thels wrote:
Era wrote:It's a "pay to win" feature (by my definition something that gives an unfair advantage to someone who can't buy it),


I disagree there, considering it's a boost to 90 with what, 483 gear? If it was a boost to 100, or say a boost to 90 with 530 gear, I could see your point, but it's not.

It's a "Pay to catch up". MoP has been out for ages, so getting your character to level 90 is certainly not the hot stuff. ToT LFR, HC Scenarios and Timeless all drop better gear than the greens your new toon gets stuffed in. You aren't getting anything that you couldn't have already gotten for ages with some very casual play.

It allows you to look at a different class, and get a feel for how those classes play at endgame level without first having to go through 90 levels that are in no way representable to how the character will feel at end game content.

The only time I would consider it "pay to win" is if a certain class/spec is so overpowered for an encounter it allows you to nullify mechanics that leveling a bunch of them 90-100 and taking them severely undergeared is a benefit. Lot of ifs and it won't apply to any guilds except those vying for world firsts.

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All those dancing bears, I couldn't dig up any information on their gear levels but I'm pretty sure some would be in dungeon blues.

Interesting if the likes of Method/Blood Legion/Paragon would buy additional characters for their players or if their players already have a max level alt of every kind.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby lythac » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:39 am

I kinda balked at the price a little (assuming UK price is £40). I don't think it ruins the game or is "pay to win" or provides an advantage to the typical player so doesn't bother me at all.

I will easily spend that much money (and more) on a night out, so maybe I stay in one Saturday and buy a character instead. If it was a boost to max level then I probably could justify it, but as it isn't I probably won't.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:48 am

lythac wrote:Interesting if the likes of Method/Blood Legion/Paragon would buy additional characters for their players or if their players already have a max level alt of every kind.

I can probably bet that every player in a top 10 guild has access to at least a 90 per class, probably with also considerable gear.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby lythac » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:13 am

I've a question, which may or may not have been answered in this thread or elsewhere (I read through http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/114996 ... -11_9_2013 and couldn't find my answer).

With Flex scaling applied to Normal (old Flex) and Heroic (old Normal) can you still run them multiple times a week to help friends etc. or has that feature been removed?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:19 pm

Not known, but I have my money on both being identical to current Flex (xrealmable, rerunnable) and only mythic having a ID-save.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:27 pm

You can run them multiple times per week, but you won't get loot more than once (on a boss to boss basis, just like current flex).

If you use say master looter, and you've already looted the boss that week, it will simply count as if you were not present when the server calculates the amount of items to drop. So let's say you're 25 people and kill a boss but 10 people have already killed it, then the amount of loot that would drop would be equal to a 15 man raid, and those 10 people who have already killed it won't be eligible for any of it.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:53 pm

Sounds good too me.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Thels » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:13 am

Indeed meant 600, not 300...

So if your character is only level 60, the professions will be 600 for sure?

That definitely makes it worth it to level a character up to 60 first, in my opinion. Vanilla goes fast, and there are plenty of dungeons with lots of quests.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Thels » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:19 am

lythac wrote:If it was a boost to max level then I probably could justify it, but as it isn't I probably won't.


It's a boost to max level if you get it before WoD is out. :P

A boost to max level early in an expansion would come closer to Pay to Win, imho. It would allow you to skip content that other players still have to work on, which gives you an unfair edge.

The boost to 90 gives you something that other players had 18 months to get to for free, and thus doesn't register as Pay to Win to me. Of course your mileage may vary.



Also, the new Normal/Heroic doesn't exactly work like the current Flex. The major difference is that there are no wings. However, there is still a big advantage.

Right now, let's say you are at boss 6, and you want loot from boss 6. If you see a good group from boss 7, you need to make a choice, do I join them, and skip my chance on loot from boss 6, or do I hope that I find a good group later on. On the other side, if you see a good group from boss 5, you can't help them out and join them, so you're still with them at boss 6, unless you have a decent alt that you don't mind saving to boss 5.

In WoD, you could freely join the group at boss 7, and find a group for boss 6 later in the week. In addition, you could also join the group at boss 5, do boss 5 a second time but without loot, and then move on to boss 6.

Combine that with cross-realm support, and it's going to be a lot easier to fill a pug for normal/heroic!
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby oldboyz » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:51 am

Worldie wrote:Disagree.

Can't wait until a lot of people spend thousand €/$ to level their chars, so Blizzard has more money to fuel the content I enjoy.


haha, if only..


i rather think it will provide more fuel for their new big shiny cars :mrgreen:
(and unfornatly, validate idea that they can ask us for more money with less&less effort)


i'm a very long time payer, get less&less in return...(well, i guess part of my money went on the dev of a new game, could have been a good one i would enjoy. Unfortunatly, i don't care about heartstone)
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:39 pm

oldboyz wrote:i'm a very long time payer, get less&less in return...


How are you getting less?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Teranoid » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:59 pm

oldboyz wrote:i'm a very long time payer, get less&less in return...(well, i guess part of my money went on the dev of a new game, could have been a good one i would enjoy. Unfortunatly, i don't care about heartstone)


This makes absolutely no sense.

And I don't mean "broken english makes no sense" I literally have no idea what you mean by "getting less and less in return".


I have almost 20 lvl 90s and have been playing this game since day one and I have absolutely no problem with it because to be honest if you hate leveling that much you should be able to pay a ridiculous price to skip it. People being able to skip it doesn't cheapen my gaming experience one bit.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby bldavis » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:25 pm

BUT HOW DARE THEY GET TO SEE CONTENT I ALSO SAW AND/OR BE ABLE TO SKIP THE PART OF THE GAME THAT THEY DONT LIKE AND DOESNT MATTER IN THE LARGE SCHEME OF THINGS! :roll:
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
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