Warlords of Draenor

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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:13 pm

probably.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:02 am

Klaudandus wrote:
Worldie wrote:Exactly. They had put the daily limit in place for the same reason you remember? What we got with Cata? People QQing that they couldn't do all the dailies they wanted.
So Blizzard said screw you, we remove the limit, do ALL the dailies you want and don't complain if you hurt yourself


That said, it wasn't a good idea to have a reputation grind hid behind another reputation grind, just saying.

They did admit the whole GL cockblock stuff was stupid, and it was indeed removed shortly after the launch (was it in 5.1?)
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Nooska » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:01 am

Also, if I'm raiding heroic (the current normal) as progression with my group, and don't go one week due to, whatever (lets say RL meetings make me unable to join for week.. happend a few times, so quite realistic) - I would then be locked out of even running "normal" or LFR to look for an upgrade. I just got locked out of running - I can't run the heroic since I'm unavailable, and being heroic progression raiders means I'm not geared and/or skilled to pug it, and the difficulties I could pug are loot locked because I ran heroic last week? "WTF Blizz! GG! WTF!! Ragequit"

Yeah, not a very good system (mainly because its based around the highest level and their 'need' for protection from themselves).
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Thels » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:59 am

Not sure if Blizzard's stance is exactly that. They do want to minimize the reasons to run lower difficulty content, just not at the expense of other people. This loot method is not at the expense of other people, since it still freely allows you to take one step up on the ladder.

It's also only a loot lockout, not an instance lockout. If you want to help some friends at lower difficulty, you can still enter those lower level difficulties and gather some loot there.



Nooska wrote:Also, if I'm raiding heroic (the current normal) as progression with my group, and don't go one week due to, whatever (lets say RL meetings make me unable to join for week.. happend a few times, so quite realistic) - I would then be locked out of even running "normal" or LFR to look for an upgrade. I just got locked out of running - I can't run the heroic since I'm unavailable, and being heroic progression raiders means I'm not geared and/or skilled to pug it, and the difficulties I could pug are loot locked because I ran heroic last week? "WTF Blizz! GG! WTF!! Ragequit"

Yeah, not a very good system (mainly because its based around the highest level and their 'need' for protection from themselves).


That scenario is pretty weird. It assumes that if you are able to attend the Heroic raids, you will not spend time on the Normal raids outside of that to get some more gear, but during the week that you're too busy to attend the Heroic raids, you suddenly do want to go to the Normal raids? It's also not exactly true. If you have only been running Heroic raids, and not Normal raids, then the Normal raid never locked out, so you can still run it.

Also, if you're so super busy that you can't attend the Heroic raids, and the week after you aren't as busy, you could run both Heroic and Normal raids.



It is not exactly a concern for the highest level of progression anymore. Even those raiders that used to do only Normal now find themselves able to do Heroic/Normal/LFR.

Also, during MoP, raid loot was only available on the highest difficulty that you ran. If your guild wanted to get the max out of flex, they would simply run through flex with their full group of mains. In WoD, raid loot is available on Mythic/Heroic/Normal, so if you're a guild that wants to progress Mythic, you could technically run Heroic 5 times with 4 mains and 20 alts, and funnel all gear to the 4 mains...
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:47 am

Thels wrote:Also, during MoP, raid loot was only available on the highest difficulty that you ran. If your guild wanted to get the max out of flex, they would simply run through flex with their full group of mains. In WoD, raid loot is available on Mythic/Heroic/Normal, so if you're a guild that wants to progress Mythic, you could technically run Heroic 5 times with 4 mains and 20 alts, and funnel all gear to the 4 mains...


Yeah, this is why I don't think letting us pick loot system for current flex/future normal is a good idea unless they plan to delay it by several weeks (which would feel kind of weird, being able to clear heroic and mythic before normal).
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Thels » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:07 am

Newsom wrote:
Thels wrote:Also, during MoP, raid loot was only available on the highest difficulty that you ran. If your guild wanted to get the max out of flex, they would simply run through flex with their full group of mains. In WoD, raid loot is available on Mythic/Heroic/Normal, so if you're a guild that wants to progress Mythic, you could technically run Heroic 5 times with 4 mains and 20 alts, and funnel all gear to the 4 mains...


Yeah, this is why I don't think letting us pick loot system for current flex/future normal is a good idea unless they plan to delay it by several weeks (which would feel kind of weird, being able to clear heroic and mythic before normal).


Heroic and Mythic are on separate lockouts, so you could do the same with those 2 difficulty levels.



That said, I do prefer the raid loot option for guild organized runs. Makes it more worthwhile to actually run it as a guild.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Jadhzia » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:56 am

Worldie wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:
Worldie wrote:Exactly. They had put the daily limit in place for the same reason you remember? What we got with Cata? People QQing that they couldn't do all the dailies they wanted.
So Blizzard said screw you, we remove the limit, do ALL the dailies you want and don't complain if you hurt yourself


That said, it wasn't a good idea to have a reputation grind hid behind another reputation grind, just saying.

They did admit the whole GL cockblock stuff was stupid, and it was indeed removed shortly after the launch (was it in 5.1?)


It was in 5.3, roughly one year after launch, so not so shortly. ;) Quote from wowpedia on the Golden Lotus page:

Patch 5.3.0 (2013-05-21): Shado-Pan and The August Celestials daily quests no longer have a faction prerequisite to be Revered with the Golden Lotus.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Winkle » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:46 am

How are people's guilds rpeparing for WoD anyway (or for the pre WoD patch)?

I guess if you're currently a 25man HC guild or any size non-hc guild you're potentially unaffected, but as a 10m HC guild we're kind of left scratching our heads a litte.

Our first thought was just to recruit enough extra people, which should work fine in theory, unfortunately Doomhammer-EU doesn't really draw much of a crowd these days, finding an additional 10-15 raiders of a similar skill level looks like it might be quite some challenge.

The other obvious solution is a guild merger of some descruiption, again though you need a guild to merge with, and even if we found a match mergers don't have a habit of being particularly smooth.

At this point we're basically resigned to hoping people return to WoW for WOD.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Thels » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:06 am

While the jump from 10 to 20 man is a big one, I do think it'll be healthy in the long run. It's nearly impossible to join/build a 25 man guild, as everyone is like "Let's just stick to 10 man, easier." Having only one mythic level also does the game good, instead of keeping 10 and 25 man mythic.

That said, it'll certainly be a hurdle for a lot of 10 man HC guilds. Fortunately, you can start normal/heroic with 10 man, and while you're recruiting more people, you can keep on raiding with the entire roster, until you actually have enough people for mythic. Currently, the jump from 10 to 25 is nearly impossible, as you have to bench so many people until you get close to that 25 man.

Though I expect a lot of 10 man HC guilds to fall apart, which means that the remaining 10 man HC guilds can pick up the scraps and get to 20 man. It'll be very bumpy early on in WoD, but after that, it should be a much smoother ride.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Ruldar » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:15 am

Okay, I am deeply confused about something.

I've been hearing rumors that some of the WoD features (the mount, pet, and level 90 boost) will be available significantly in advance of the expansion release if you digitally pre-order through Blizzard. If I order the big box collectors edition from Amazon as I normally do, does this mean I will have to wait for those bits and pieces?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Winkle » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:22 am

Ruldar wrote:Okay, I am deeply confused about something.

I've been hearing rumors that some of the WoD features (the mount, pet, and level 90 boost) will be available significantly in advance of the expansion release if you digitally pre-order through Blizzard. If I order the big box collectors edition from Amazon as I normally do, does this mean I will have to wait for those bits and pieces?


Unless there's someway of associating your purchase with your battlenet account the yes.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:46 am

Ruldar wrote:Okay, I am deeply confused about something.

I've been hearing rumors that some of the WoD features (the mount, pet, and level 90 boost) will be available significantly in advance of the expansion release if you digitally pre-order through Blizzard. If I order the big box collectors edition from Amazon as I normally do, does this mean I will have to wait for those bits and pieces?

To be exact, they mentioned that who "preorders" it (i don't recall them limiting it to digital purchase, but I might be wrong on it) will get *an additional lvl 90 boost* available istantly on top of the boost that everyone will get for purchasing WoD on the release day.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:28 am

Not an additional boost, you just get the boost Soon(TM) rather than in 6 months.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:56 am

60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Era » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:14 pm

Worldie wrote:60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|


Too cheap in my opinion. I'd rather it be a thousand dollars so people would shun away from the feature.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:16 pm

Disagree.

Can't wait until a lot of people spend thousand €/$ to level their chars, so Blizzard has more money to fuel the content I enjoy.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Sagara » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:36 pm

Worldie wrote:Disagree.

Can't wait until a lot of people spend thousand €/$ to level their chars, so Blizzard has more money to fuel the content I enjoy.


I like the way you think.
Besides, for us old geezers another 90 is what? A dozen hours?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby bldavis » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:02 pm

Sagara wrote:Besides, for us old geezers another 90 is what? A dozen hours?

amateurs... :twisted:
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Archeth » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:40 pm

Era wrote:
Worldie wrote:60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|


Too cheap in my opinion. I'd rather it be a thousand dollars so people would shun away from the feature.

What's the problem with that feature?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:42 pm

"OMG, noobs who don't know how to play are in my [insert end game thing here]!"

It'd almost be like how things currently are... except more money going to blizz...
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Teranoid » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:57 pm

Era wrote:
Worldie wrote:60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|


Too cheap in my opinion. I'd rather it be a thousand dollars so people would shun away from the feature.


You are greatly overestimating how many people will legitimately spend the money on this.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Newsom » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:55 pm

It should be expensive. I guess they couldn't price it above ~$75 (the cost of buying a new account with WoD and then moving the characer) so this seems like a decent compromise.

Now I feel less bad about leveling 11 characters to 90 on my own time.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Kal » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:37 pm

Won't buy, don't care.

I think it's a great move by Blizz though, since relevant content is what people play for, leveling is just a grind, yadda yadda. For people inclined to spend a bit extra, they get alts. More power to them, just learn your class.

Now about that learning the class thing, I think it's a terrible argument (not that anyone here made it, but it is out there) that any of these players would be at a disadvantage due to being boosted, not just considering respeccing at max level, but also considering that raiding/pvp at max is so totally different than questing or dungeon grinding, it's just not an issue. So, more power to them.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Era » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:10 am

To me it's more an ideological issue than a practical one. It's a "pay to win" feature (by my definition something that gives an unfair advantage to someone who can't buy it), and while practically, sure, there might not be any serious ramifications (not that much to win other than time), I just don't approve. When I hear how many alts some people on this forum have leveled, I cant help but think "Hey, good job". That'll be gone. As for the "lack of skill" issue, well, to some degree it surely is going to affect LFR and dugeons? Besides, this game has got enough micro transactions as it is, for a game with a subscription.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:18 am

Teranoid wrote:
Era wrote:
Worldie wrote:60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|


Too cheap in my opinion. I'd rather it be a thousand dollars so people would shun away from the feature.


You are greatly overestimating how many people will legitimately spend the money on this.

You greatly underestimate how much money most of the playerbase has to spend. Just think of the success of the in-game store for completely useless stuff (just cosmetic).
The amount of "kids with daddy's cc" is enormous, and so is the amount of people who have no financial awareness as they have someone else payin their bills.

I think Blizzard will make a ton of money from the boost service, and tbh, I don't care.
The whole "omg we'll get noobs in whatever end game puggable content" doesn't really stand, because even now that you can't skip the leveling, there's still people in SoO LFR (so 496 ilvl) who can't break 40k dps. People with second last tier who can't do more damage or healing than a lvl 85 character. And they did the whole leveling.
Leveling doesn't teach anything to the player because it's so easy that you can go away with autoattacking as mage. Even in leveling istances, mobs are so weak and die so fast that you can complete them without a tank and healer, so group play is also not teached to a leveler.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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