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Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:19 pm
by Flex
Worldie wrote:Not happening anyway.

Remember Blizzard's stance about the lockouts: It's *your* problem if you want to run lower difficulties for minimal upgrades. Blizzard expects that if you are a Mythic raider, you only run Mythic and don't care about lower difficulties.


Every time Blizzard tried to protect players from themselves they get bitched at so why would they try to limit raid and loot lockouts beyond the once per week per difficulty system?

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:58 pm
by Worldie
Exactly. They had put the daily limit in place for the same reason you remember? What we got with Cata? People QQing that they couldn't do all the dailies they wanted.
So Blizzard said screw you, we remove the limit, do ALL the dailies you want and don't complain if you hurt yourself

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:01 pm
by jere
Not to mention being able to do your progression stuff at the high level and still be able to hop on a lower difficulty later on to help out a friend or two or just hang.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:23 pm
by Klaudandus
Worldie wrote:Exactly. They had put the daily limit in place for the same reason you remember? What we got with Cata? People QQing that they couldn't do all the dailies they wanted.
So Blizzard said screw you, we remove the limit, do ALL the dailies you want and don't complain if you hurt yourself


That said, it wasn't a good idea to have a reputation grind hid behind another reputation grind, just saying.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:07 pm
by bldavis
if we had access to all the reps at once, and the GL wasnt 20 quests a day by itself..it probably wouldnt have been as bad

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:13 pm
by Klaudandus
probably.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:02 am
by Worldie
Klaudandus wrote:
Worldie wrote:Exactly. They had put the daily limit in place for the same reason you remember? What we got with Cata? People QQing that they couldn't do all the dailies they wanted.
So Blizzard said screw you, we remove the limit, do ALL the dailies you want and don't complain if you hurt yourself


That said, it wasn't a good idea to have a reputation grind hid behind another reputation grind, just saying.

They did admit the whole GL cockblock stuff was stupid, and it was indeed removed shortly after the launch (was it in 5.1?)

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:01 am
by Nooska
Also, if I'm raiding heroic (the current normal) as progression with my group, and don't go one week due to, whatever (lets say RL meetings make me unable to join for week.. happend a few times, so quite realistic) - I would then be locked out of even running "normal" or LFR to look for an upgrade. I just got locked out of running - I can't run the heroic since I'm unavailable, and being heroic progression raiders means I'm not geared and/or skilled to pug it, and the difficulties I could pug are loot locked because I ran heroic last week? "WTF Blizz! GG! WTF!! Ragequit"

Yeah, not a very good system (mainly because its based around the highest level and their 'need' for protection from themselves).

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:59 am
by Thels
Not sure if Blizzard's stance is exactly that. They do want to minimize the reasons to run lower difficulty content, just not at the expense of other people. This loot method is not at the expense of other people, since it still freely allows you to take one step up on the ladder.

It's also only a loot lockout, not an instance lockout. If you want to help some friends at lower difficulty, you can still enter those lower level difficulties and gather some loot there.



Nooska wrote:Also, if I'm raiding heroic (the current normal) as progression with my group, and don't go one week due to, whatever (lets say RL meetings make me unable to join for week.. happend a few times, so quite realistic) - I would then be locked out of even running "normal" or LFR to look for an upgrade. I just got locked out of running - I can't run the heroic since I'm unavailable, and being heroic progression raiders means I'm not geared and/or skilled to pug it, and the difficulties I could pug are loot locked because I ran heroic last week? "WTF Blizz! GG! WTF!! Ragequit"

Yeah, not a very good system (mainly because its based around the highest level and their 'need' for protection from themselves).


That scenario is pretty weird. It assumes that if you are able to attend the Heroic raids, you will not spend time on the Normal raids outside of that to get some more gear, but during the week that you're too busy to attend the Heroic raids, you suddenly do want to go to the Normal raids? It's also not exactly true. If you have only been running Heroic raids, and not Normal raids, then the Normal raid never locked out, so you can still run it.

Also, if you're so super busy that you can't attend the Heroic raids, and the week after you aren't as busy, you could run both Heroic and Normal raids.



It is not exactly a concern for the highest level of progression anymore. Even those raiders that used to do only Normal now find themselves able to do Heroic/Normal/LFR.

Also, during MoP, raid loot was only available on the highest difficulty that you ran. If your guild wanted to get the max out of flex, they would simply run through flex with their full group of mains. In WoD, raid loot is available on Mythic/Heroic/Normal, so if you're a guild that wants to progress Mythic, you could technically run Heroic 5 times with 4 mains and 20 alts, and funnel all gear to the 4 mains...

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:47 am
by Newsom
Thels wrote:Also, during MoP, raid loot was only available on the highest difficulty that you ran. If your guild wanted to get the max out of flex, they would simply run through flex with their full group of mains. In WoD, raid loot is available on Mythic/Heroic/Normal, so if you're a guild that wants to progress Mythic, you could technically run Heroic 5 times with 4 mains and 20 alts, and funnel all gear to the 4 mains...


Yeah, this is why I don't think letting us pick loot system for current flex/future normal is a good idea unless they plan to delay it by several weeks (which would feel kind of weird, being able to clear heroic and mythic before normal).

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:07 am
by Thels
Newsom wrote:
Thels wrote:Also, during MoP, raid loot was only available on the highest difficulty that you ran. If your guild wanted to get the max out of flex, they would simply run through flex with their full group of mains. In WoD, raid loot is available on Mythic/Heroic/Normal, so if you're a guild that wants to progress Mythic, you could technically run Heroic 5 times with 4 mains and 20 alts, and funnel all gear to the 4 mains...


Yeah, this is why I don't think letting us pick loot system for current flex/future normal is a good idea unless they plan to delay it by several weeks (which would feel kind of weird, being able to clear heroic and mythic before normal).


Heroic and Mythic are on separate lockouts, so you could do the same with those 2 difficulty levels.



That said, I do prefer the raid loot option for guild organized runs. Makes it more worthwhile to actually run it as a guild.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:56 am
by Jadhzia
Worldie wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:
Worldie wrote:Exactly. They had put the daily limit in place for the same reason you remember? What we got with Cata? People QQing that they couldn't do all the dailies they wanted.
So Blizzard said screw you, we remove the limit, do ALL the dailies you want and don't complain if you hurt yourself


That said, it wasn't a good idea to have a reputation grind hid behind another reputation grind, just saying.

They did admit the whole GL cockblock stuff was stupid, and it was indeed removed shortly after the launch (was it in 5.1?)


It was in 5.3, roughly one year after launch, so not so shortly. ;) Quote from wowpedia on the Golden Lotus page:

Patch 5.3.0 (2013-05-21): Shado-Pan and The August Celestials daily quests no longer have a faction prerequisite to be Revered with the Golden Lotus.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:46 am
by Winkle
How are people's guilds rpeparing for WoD anyway (or for the pre WoD patch)?

I guess if you're currently a 25man HC guild or any size non-hc guild you're potentially unaffected, but as a 10m HC guild we're kind of left scratching our heads a litte.

Our first thought was just to recruit enough extra people, which should work fine in theory, unfortunately Doomhammer-EU doesn't really draw much of a crowd these days, finding an additional 10-15 raiders of a similar skill level looks like it might be quite some challenge.

The other obvious solution is a guild merger of some descruiption, again though you need a guild to merge with, and even if we found a match mergers don't have a habit of being particularly smooth.

At this point we're basically resigned to hoping people return to WoW for WOD.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:06 am
by Thels
While the jump from 10 to 20 man is a big one, I do think it'll be healthy in the long run. It's nearly impossible to join/build a 25 man guild, as everyone is like "Let's just stick to 10 man, easier." Having only one mythic level also does the game good, instead of keeping 10 and 25 man mythic.

That said, it'll certainly be a hurdle for a lot of 10 man HC guilds. Fortunately, you can start normal/heroic with 10 man, and while you're recruiting more people, you can keep on raiding with the entire roster, until you actually have enough people for mythic. Currently, the jump from 10 to 25 is nearly impossible, as you have to bench so many people until you get close to that 25 man.

Though I expect a lot of 10 man HC guilds to fall apart, which means that the remaining 10 man HC guilds can pick up the scraps and get to 20 man. It'll be very bumpy early on in WoD, but after that, it should be a much smoother ride.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:15 am
by Ruldar
Okay, I am deeply confused about something.

I've been hearing rumors that some of the WoD features (the mount, pet, and level 90 boost) will be available significantly in advance of the expansion release if you digitally pre-order through Blizzard. If I order the big box collectors edition from Amazon as I normally do, does this mean I will have to wait for those bits and pieces?

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:22 am
by Winkle
Ruldar wrote:Okay, I am deeply confused about something.

I've been hearing rumors that some of the WoD features (the mount, pet, and level 90 boost) will be available significantly in advance of the expansion release if you digitally pre-order through Blizzard. If I order the big box collectors edition from Amazon as I normally do, does this mean I will have to wait for those bits and pieces?


Unless there's someway of associating your purchase with your battlenet account the yes.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:46 am
by Worldie
Ruldar wrote:Okay, I am deeply confused about something.

I've been hearing rumors that some of the WoD features (the mount, pet, and level 90 boost) will be available significantly in advance of the expansion release if you digitally pre-order through Blizzard. If I order the big box collectors edition from Amazon as I normally do, does this mean I will have to wait for those bits and pieces?

To be exact, they mentioned that who "preorders" it (i don't recall them limiting it to digital purchase, but I might be wrong on it) will get *an additional lvl 90 boost* available istantly on top of the boost that everyone will get for purchasing WoD on the release day.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:28 am
by Newsom
Not an additional boost, you just get the boost Soon(TM) rather than in 6 months.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:56 am
by Worldie
60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:14 pm
by Era
Worldie wrote:60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|


Too cheap in my opinion. I'd rather it be a thousand dollars so people would shun away from the feature.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:16 pm
by Worldie
Disagree.

Can't wait until a lot of people spend thousand €/$ to level their chars, so Blizzard has more money to fuel the content I enjoy.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:36 pm
by Sagara
Worldie wrote:Disagree.

Can't wait until a lot of people spend thousand €/$ to level their chars, so Blizzard has more money to fuel the content I enjoy.


I like the way you think.
Besides, for us old geezers another 90 is what? A dozen hours?

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:02 pm
by bldavis
Sagara wrote:Besides, for us old geezers another 90 is what? A dozen hours?

amateurs... :twisted:

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:40 pm
by Archeth
Era wrote:
Worldie wrote:60 $ for a lvl boost is FAR too much, chineses ask for less and I'd still rather do the leveling myself :|


Too cheap in my opinion. I'd rather it be a thousand dollars so people would shun away from the feature.

What's the problem with that feature?

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:42 pm
by Skye1013
"OMG, noobs who don't know how to play are in my [insert end game thing here]!"

It'd almost be like how things currently are... except more money going to blizz...