Warlords of Draenor

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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:31 pm

Fetzie wrote:
Worldie wrote:Then now I'm wondering myself what "Readiness" is.


Could be cooldown reduction, like the Galakras and Malkorok trinkets. Given that they've lifted other effects from SoO trinkets.



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X% Readiness increases the cooldown recovery rate (aka, divides the cooldown by (1+Readiness)) of *some* class abilities.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:14 am

Just catching up on this topic... so some minor necroing going on but...

Era wrote:I don't mind the idea, but then again I'm currently on a raiding break. For raiders, make sure to have dibs on NOT being the guy who runs to the summoning stone! :P


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Clearly these ideas go together. Add innkeeper to Yak mount, fellow raiders set home to person with Yak mount... that person runs to the raid entrance... rest of the raid hearths to them.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Nooska » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:59 am

Era wrote:In my opinion, anything short of Normal mode raids should only drop blue colour items. Sure, the item level and stats can stay the same, I just want them to change the label colour. Just to make that purple colour actually mean something again.

NM Dungeon: Blue.
HM Dungeon: Blue with "Heroic" label.
LFR: Blue with "Raid Finder" label.
Flex: Blue with "Flex" label.
Normal: Purple.
Heroic: Purple with "Heroic" label.

I honestly believe that's all it takes to make epics feel epic again. Just one simple text colour change.


You are tinking in current terms ;-) ;
WoD:
Lvl<100 Dungeons: Blue (they are rare for the level)
Lvl=100 Dungeons: Blue (higher ilvl of course, but same deal as for above)
LFR: Blue with some purple (like HC dungeons in TBC)
Normal: Purple
Heroic: Purple with heroic label
Mythic: Purple with mythic label
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:55 am

So, main slot gear in WoD will be:

Stam
Str/Int/Agi (changes to match spec)
2 of: Crit/Haste/Mastery/Amplify/Readiness/Multistrike
Rare Bonus: Speed/Cleave/Lifesteal

?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:08 am

KysenMurrin wrote:So, main slot gear in WoD will be:

Stam
Str/Int/Agi (changes to match spec)
2 of: Crit/Haste/Mastery/Amplify/Readiness/Multistrike
Rare Bonus: Speed/Cleave/Lifesteal

?


Looks that way. Means plenty of slot options without having potentially wasted pieces.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby culhag » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:21 am

KysenMurrin wrote:So, main slot gear in WoD will be:

Stam
Str/Int/Agi (changes to match spec)
2 of: Crit/Haste/Mastery/Amplify/Readiness/Multistrike
Rare Bonus: Speed/Cleave/Lifesteal

?

You forgot
Secondary : Spirit
Rare bonus (though not exactly the same kind): gem slot, warforged
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:24 am

That's not what they meant.
They meant gems will still be on some pieces, intentionally, not randomly.

Spirit (and armor) are going to showup on non-armorclass items, so neck cloak ring trinkets, possibly weapons and shields.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:25 am

Yeah, there's no Spirit on main gear, so that it can all be shared between healers and dps. Spirit only on accessories.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Era » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:32 am

Nooska wrote:
Era wrote:In my opinion, anything short of Normal mode raids should only drop blue colour items. Sure, the item level and stats can stay the same, I just want them to change the label colour. Just to make that purple colour actually mean something again.

NM Dungeon: Blue.
HM Dungeon: Blue with "Heroic" label.
LFR: Blue with "Raid Finder" label.
Flex: Blue with "Flex" label.
Normal: Purple.
Heroic: Purple with "Heroic" label.

I honestly believe that's all it takes to make epics feel epic again. Just one simple text colour change.


You are tinking in current terms ;-) ;
WoD:
Lvl<100 Dungeons: Blue (they are rare for the level)
Lvl=100 Dungeons: Blue (higher ilvl of course, but same deal as for above)
LFR: Blue with some purple (like HC dungeons in TBC)
Normal: Purple
Heroic: Purple with heroic label
Mythic: Purple with mythic label


Mhnnnyeaahh okay, Normal in WoD is still Flex though, difficulty-wise. But okay, I'll allow it, they can have purples too. I'm feeling generous.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby culhag » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:37 am

Worldie wrote:That's not what they meant.
They meant gems will still be on some pieces, intentionally, not randomly.

That's not what I understood...

Spirit (and armor) are going to showup on non-armorclass items, so neck cloak ring trinkets, possibly weapons and shields.

Yeah, my bad.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:18 pm

Blizzard post on itemization changes and examples

ETA people sure are overthinking things.

Secondary stats not random. Tertiary stats random.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:59 pm

Did anyone think secondary stats would be? (Barring the occasional "random enchantment" item they sometimes throw onto a loot table.)

Only part of that which surprises me is that they're saying an item has a chance to have multiple tertiary stats. You might conceivably get a "Warforged", gem slot, run speed, lifesteal, and cleave item. Extremely rarely, of course.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Sagara » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:03 pm

If I'm ready right, you could only get Warforged/Gemmed/One of the tertiary. According to current numbers, that'd happen once every 1,000 loots, so... yeah.

I'm really at a loss to say anything about this system. Yeah maybe that I don't like the concept of random bonuses, but I get where they're coming from (extending content duration) so it's more of a "meh" on my part.

So, you guys planning still doing Flex via MTin? :)
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:08 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Did anyone think secondary stats would be? (Barring the occasional "random enchantment" item they sometimes throw onto a loot table.)


Reading through those comments lots of people seem to think that a chest that drops could have any combination of stats under the sun.

Sounds like gem slots are not a tertiary and will just be on random gear, and if gems are as potent as they promise might make them the default BIS items.

Gem clarification from twitter

@flexhole No, secondaries are *not* random. ALL copies of [Bracers of Crithto] have Mastery+Amplify. Only tertiary/gem/forged are random.

So gems are a separate roll from everything else.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby halabar » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:30 pm

Sagara wrote:If I'm ready right, you could only get Warforged/Gemmed/One of the tertiary. According to current numbers, that'd happen once every 1,000 loots, so... yeah.

I'm really at a loss to say anything about this system. Yeah maybe that I don't like the concept of random bonuses, but I get where they're coming from (extending content duration) so it's more of a "meh" on my part.

So, you guys planning still doing Flex via MTin? :)


Don't think it will be that rare.

If you look at the current Blue post about it, getting all three tertiary will be really rare, but getting one of the three won't be too rare (about as rare as warforged is now).
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:34 pm

Still if gems only appear as random, that will destroy the value of gems on the market...
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby halabar » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:36 pm

Now that BlizzCon is over and Warlords of Draenor has been unveiled, we’ve been getting some additional questions about the gear changes currently planned for the expansion. To help shed some more light on what you can expect, we thought we’d take a bit of time to clarify a few things.

Keep in mind that as with anything still in development, the information we share now will likely change as we progress, but this should help give you a good understanding of our goals and thinking.


Armor Pieces: Head, Shoulders, Chest, Legs, Gloves, Belt, Boots, and Bracers

Primary Stats

One of our main intents for primary stats is to make sure that higher Item Level (ilvl) pieces from new content are almost always superior to items from older content. Further, the changes we’re making to primary stats will help make pieces more universal, so groups will find gear drops more useful more often. This means you’ll be disenchanting less Intellect plate (only usable by Paladins today) or Agility mail (only usable by Hunters and Enhancement Shamans today). As we discussed at BlizzCon, we’re accomplishing this by making it so primary stats for a given piece of gear will change based on your current spec, though it’s likely that only new gear added in Warlords will work like this, as it might be impossible to implement this for all existing gear. Here are some additional points to know regarding the changes to primary stats:

Armor pieces will always have some amount of Stamina and Armor value.
Armor pieces always have Strength, Intellect, or Agility as a primary stat. Plate has either Strength or Intellect. Mail and Leather have either Agility or Intellect. Cloth has Intellect.
In the cases of Plate, Mail, and Leather, the primary stat will change depending on your current spec. Specifically, casters (including healers) will get Intellect, and melee or tank specs will get Strength or Agility.

Secondary Stats

Our intent for secondary stats is to differentiate pieces that occupy the same slot, allow for player customization, and to further differentiate specs within a class. Here are a few important points regarding the changes that are currently planned for secondary stats:

Secondary stats don’t change based on spec on armor pieces (or any piece).
Secondary stats on armor pieces can still include Haste, Crit, and/or Mastery.
Secondary stats on armor pieces will no longer include Hit, Expertise, Dodge, or Parry. These are being retired in Warlords, and will likely be removed even from existing gear.
Secondary stats on armor pieces will also no longer include Spirit, nor will they include Bonus Armor, which are reserved exclusively for non-armor pieces (which are explained below).
In addition, secondary stats on armor pieces may include several new stats we are exploring such as Readiness, Amplify, and Multi-strike. Technical Game Designer Chadd “Celestalon” Nervig has been sharing more details about these on his Twitter account.

Additional Properties

Armor pieces may have three other properties at random. First, items may be higher Item Level than normal. For sake of this discussion, we’ll call these items Warforged for now.

Second, items may have gem sockets. Unlike gem sockets today, gem sockets in Warlords of Draenor will be rarer but more powerful. There will be no socket bonuses, but we are strongly considering requiring the right color gem for the socket. All gems will grant secondary stats, including Spirit and Bonus Armor (see below).

Finally, items may have tertiary stats. These include things like a bonus to Movement Speed, Sturdiness, Life Steal, Avoidance (less AoE damage), and Cleave. Because of the rarity of tertiary starts, stacking them to produce (for example) a Movement Speed set will take enormous effort.

The design intent of these additional qualities on items is to make itemization more exciting and to give it more longevity. Rather than waiting weeks to get a breastplate, you might get one pretty quickly—but to get a true “best-in-slot” item will take much more effort and a bit of luck. Here are a few more points to consider for these properties:

We haven’t decided on exact numbers yet, but for the current discussion, assume something like a 10% chance for an item to have an additional property. It’s possible for one item to have all three of these properties, but the chance of that is very small.
The properties are determined at the time an item is looted (and possibly even includes crafted gear). For example, if an ogre boss drops two copies of the Bracers of Crithto, one might be a normal version, while another might have a tertiary stat.

Being Warforged, having a socket, or having a tertiary stat do not count against the stat budget of the item—they are strictly bonuses. The item will not have reduced primary or secondary stats in order to have these additional properties.

Set Bonuses

Similar to primary stats, set bonuses will also change depending on your current spec. This means a Paladin may only need one tier set rather than one for Holy and one for Retribution. It also means that set bonuses can be more tailored towards a spec. For instance, Marksman Hunter set bonuses can have different bonuses or different numbers than a Survival Hunter set. Like today, not every helmet, chest piece, or other piece of armor that drops will be part of a tier set.

Non-Armor Pieces: Weapons, Rings, Cloak, Necklace, and Trinkets

Primary Stats

In general, most of these pieces will not have Strength, Agility, or Intellect. Instead, they may have Attack Power or Spell Power to make sure they are more universal. However, our current thought it to keep primary stats on weapons so that they continue to feel iconic and special. Many of the items will have Stamina as well.

Secondary Stats

The information about secondary stats on armor above also applies here. In addition, Spirit and Bonus Armor can appear on these items. Spirit is only useful for healers. Bonus Armor is generally only useful for tanks. A Spell Power piece without Spirit may be attractive to healers or may be attractive to DPS casters instead.

The intent of including Spirit and Bonus Armor on these pieces is to make sure some items are still valuable only to healer and tank specs, helping to make sure they don’t have too much competition for gear against the more numerous DPS players in a given group. These are also stats we consider interesting, because how much of each of these stats a tank or healer might want is more subjective. For example, one tank in a group might prefer more Bonus Armor while another might prefer more Haste.

In the case of Spirit, imagine that stacking Spirit on every non-armor slot will give you more mana regeneration than you would reasonably need. That is to say, you likely won’t need Spirit on every single spot in order to function as a healer.

In the case of Bonus Armor, this stat fills the niche that Dodge and Parry fill today. We like tanks avoiding attacks as a mechanic, but it hasn’t proven to be a particularly interesting gearing strategy. However, we still want a dedicated damage-mitigation stat, and Bonus Armor will be it.

Additional Qualities

These items will also have a chance to have one of the additional qualities discussed above (Warforged, gems, and tertiary stats), and the information related to these qualities on armor still applies here.

Examples

A Holy Paladin has a raid tier set from the Blackrock Foundry. If she switches to her Retribution spec, the tier set is still functional, as the primary stats and set bonuses change. However, if she prefers Haste for her Retribution spec and Crit in her Holy spec (and is someone who enjoys the min-max game), then a single set of armor may not be optimal.

For her healing set, let’s assume this player also has one ring with Spirit, a shield with Spirit, and a trinket that procs on heals. The trinket is almost useless in her Retribution set. The shield is also useless, since Retribution is designed to wield a two-handed weapon. The ring will be sub-optimal because Spirit is useless to a Retribution Paladin, but if it has another valuable stat (e.g. Haste), it may still be worth using—again depending on how min-max-focused the player is.

A more casual player would probably be fine just using the trinket anyway and using a lower Item Level two-handed mace when she plays Retribution. A more min-max player would probably want separate rings, cloaks, trinkets, neck pieces, and weapons to use in the different specs. A very min-max player—such as someone competing in world-first Mythic raid progression—might even want different heads, shoulders, chests, and so on depending on the mix of secondary stats. This player might even swap out gems between the two specs.

This may seem like a lot to take in now, but we’ll continue to watch feedback and answer any additional questions where we can. And again, keep in mind that as with anything still in development, this information or some of the details will likely change as we progress.

As always, we welcome your constructive feedback, and we look forward to reading what you think.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Teranoid » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:38 pm

Really not a fan of the whole idea of "this socket can only use this gem" and moreso if there's even less sockets what's the point of even having JC'ing anymore?

I mean don't get me wrong I like the ideas they're coming up with but some of them make me feel like they're treating us like we're all a bunch of dipshits who can't even tie our shoes by ourselves.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:42 pm

Worldie wrote:Still if gems only appear as random, that will destroy the value of gems on the market...


Unless the gems are uber. I'd honestly not be surprised to see them as powerful as the main armor slot stats, gem slot on your chest? Why you just doubled its strength or crit or armor!
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby halabar » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:50 pm

Teranoid wrote:Really not a fan of the whole idea of "this socket can only use this gem" and moreso if there's even less sockets what's the point of even having JC'ing anymore?

I mean don't get me wrong I like the ideas they're coming up with but some of them make me feel like they're treating us like we're all a bunch of dipshits who can't even tie our shoes by ourselves.


While they are "dumbing it down", after the novelty of reforging wore off, was it really fun?.. It was really a stop-gap to fix bad gear itemization, and to get around bad RNG.

If you remove the funky stats, you don't need to reforge anymore.

I really really like that the new system has a bit of the D3 randomness to it. The other nice thing is that this will give a boost to the unwashed masses, as we won't have to worry about tanks or dps or healers who have no idea how to gem. It will also rid us of the reforge breaks between bosses.

I am concerned for JCers... (I have 2 of them), but that might be a price to pay for a better system.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:50 pm

Hybrid gems are still a thing. A red slot could be strength, strength/stam or strength/haste. (Or probably even a new secondary stat as the red stat.)
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:04 pm

They could balance things so all gems are rarer and more expensive, maybe.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Why do I have the feeling that its just not feasible to be a JC anymore...
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Flex » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:15 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Why do I have the feeling that its just not feasible to be a JC anymore...


Because everyone overreacts to everything all the time?
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:30 pm

I havent made good gold with my JC in the longest as it is. My scribe has been my main gold source for a while.
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