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Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:57 pm
by halabar
I think what they are trying to do is make gear more random, more like the D3 model. A piece of gear might be Lwarforged" it might have a socket, it might give bonus sppeed or cleave. And with reforging gone, you do nned to think about if that piece with crit is good for you or not.

Hit and expertise are a legacy from the days of weapon skills. Good riddance. If you just need an addon to calculate the optimal level, it's not interesting or good for the game.

On the other hand, haste caps do seperate good players from great players, hopefully those stay.

Hopefully the gems and enchants will be more inteesting.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:01 pm
by halabar
Also, played the starting zone demo, felt fine with the squish. If you didn't look at the numbers, you would not notice a difference.

A hunter in full 528 gear had 30k health.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:39 pm
by Lieris
Teranoid wrote:Speed
Lifesteal
Avoidance
Cleave
Sturdiness

Wat.


I actually really like this. Lets face it, gearing has become really boring, the numbers have gotten ridiculous and having to gem, enchant, reforge and valor upgrade everything each time is a very expensive and lengthy ritual. Having items with fun new stats and procs is the way to go instead of incremental upgrades each tier. This along with the item squish is the itemisation overhaul the game desperately needed.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:53 am
by KysenMurrin
It does seem like there'd be some interesting, fun tricks you could pull with the new stats.

See "no Annual Pass", read: "Without the auction house we need people to actually pay for the Diablo expansion this time."

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:37 am
by Fenris
Enchanting is still around, but fewer items can be enchanted. There will be more enchant choices for those items.

:roll:

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:12 am
by Amirya
Just caught up, and whoa.

Dodge, parry, and holy shield.

I may actually pick up my paladin as a tank this next expac, instead of a part time healer.

I guess my burning question for 4am is, do I keep going with my shaman as first 100 in WoD, or do I pick up the paladin again?

Hmmmm......

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:53 am
by Zalaria
Amirya wrote:Just caught up, and whoa.

Dodge, parry, and holy shield.

I may actually pick up my paladin as a tank this next expac, instead of a part time healer.

I guess my burning question for 4am is, do I keep going with my shaman as first 100 in WoD, or do I pick up the paladin again?

Hmmmm......

http://justflipacoin.com/

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:52 am
by KysenMurrin
They say they're going to try to get the expansion out faster this time, and that there won't be any more MoP content because it would delay the expac. So I wouldn't at all be surprised if there's another 10-12 months of Siege of Orgrimmar.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:22 am
by Ruldar
Eh, at least that'll mean plenty of chances at the heirloom weapons off Garrosh.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:38 am
by Era
Guess I should maybe try to get back into raiding before the next expansion, just so I have a shot at some heirlooms... :roll:

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:52 am
by fuzzygeek
Teranoid wrote:
"All future raids on normal/heroic difficulty will be cross realm enabled on release"

Hey that's prett-

"Each difficulty level will have it's own lockout!"


Image


I'm surprised there's not more chatter about this. Also the inability to change difficulty on the fly. That means no more working on heroic(mythic) progression, then ratcheting down a difficulty to finish the clear for gear.

Which means if you do the first 4 bosses in Mythic, you have to go back and do all 10 in heroic to farm gear. This strikes me as being an absurd increase in raid time. For a 12-hr a week guild this makes my head hurt.

They did make an off-hand comment about "clear wing X times, get key to skip thing," so maybe killing a boss in Mythic will give you the option to skip it on Heroic.

We'll see how it shakes out, but I'd really like to see them explicitly address this.

Also flex *still* doesn't do anything for "casual heroic guilds," since we're still going to have roster and bench issues, except with 20 people it's a marginally larger logistical headache.

They made a big deal about being able to go in with your friends and help them out on another difficulty; I'm hoping this means raids will be more bosses and less trash; sub-10min boss fights with 15 minutes of trash between bosses seems unbalanced. To be fair the SoO trash seems really reasonable, compared to, say, ToT.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:07 am
by Era
fuzzygeek wrote:They made a big deal about being able to go in with your friends and help them out on another difficulty; I'm hoping this means raids will be more bosses and less trash; sub-10min boss fights with 15 minutes of trash between bosses seems unbalanced. To be fair the SoO trash seems really reasonable, compared to, say, ToT.


How did you feel about the Dragon Soul trash (or rather the almost complete lack thereof)?

As a raid leader it was nice to just get on with the boss-business, but I do kind of feel that trash packs have their place in raids.
Not only for the story and "feel" of the raid, but also as a good way to introduce/prepare for certain boss mechanics.

EDIT: Ignoring the Ultraxion trash, because damn. :roll:

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:00 am
by fuzzygeek
It is a balance. No trash isn't very good either -- ToGC was, like, what "everyone" was asking for, but it turned the raid into srs business all the time every time. It's hard to say whether it was just being in a room, or the lack of trash that made that raid feel so soul-suckingly horrible.

Some trash is good -- it's nice to have a bit of downtime, and some of my fondest memories are things that happened while we were shitting around on vent during trash.

Trash that introduces fight mechanics: good. Small packs of challenging trash can also be fun -- bonus points if they become mini-bosses and actually award loot or valor or something other than "I've just sucked X minutes of your life away. Tell me, how do you feel?"

Calling a raid 30 minutes early because "we don't have time to clear the trash and kill the boss" is pretty stupid. 15 minute cut-off much more reasonable.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:12 am
by Era
fuzzygeek wrote:... some of my fondest memories are things that happened while we were shitting around on vent during trash.


That's very true! :lol:

The downtime aspect might be the best point about having some trash, other than the light introduction to mechanics.
At least for more serious raiders, trash and farm bosses is basically where people unwind and mess around.
Where it's ALMOST OKAY for your hunter to misdirect pull onto the healer, and for the Paladin tank to bubble-hearth. :roll:

fuzzygeek wrote:Small packs of challenging trash can also be fun -- bonus points if they become mini-bosses and actually award loot or valor or something


Yeah. Especially in a non-linear raid, because it allows for trash farming - which is actually a nice thing for the highly casual groups. I know my aunt (who runs a super-causal guild) really misses trash farm runs, like we had in BoT (despite it's linear layout) and to some degree Firelands. They were a nice way for sub-normal raid groups to get their hands on a few beneficial item upgrades, and if they can learn some boss mechanics along the way then that's superb!

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:46 am
by Cema
I really like how they re-use Holy Shield every time they have no idea for a prot paladin talent xD "Let's give em Holy Shield back ... and get rid of it in 6 month ... and give it back in one year ..."

:D

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:51 am
by Teranoid
I've decided that I'm not even gonna worry about what they do with raids. As much as I love being a heroic raider I've already thrown in the towel due to RL and quite frankly the fact that I just don't care as much about raiding anymore.

Still gonna buy the expansion but I'm not fumbling my life for raiding anymore.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:17 am
by Era
Teranoid wrote:I've decided that I'm not even gonna worry about what they do with raids. As much as I love being a heroic raider I've already thrown in the towel due to RL and quite frankly the fact that I just don't care as much about raiding anymore.

Still gonna buy the expansion but I'm not fumbling my life for raiding anymore.


That's where I am now. Have to admit I miss it, though. At least MoP and WoD feel like fairly solid expansions to play in a casual manner.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:49 am
by Newsom
Not sure where to put this, but I have one huge annoyance regarding the way the raids and lockouts are structured in WoD.

T9 meets Dragon Soul. Burnout will be extreme for Mythic raiders at the top end. It's going to be madness.

It was bad enough having to clear multiple normal modes with alts feeding gear to them, but at least it was limited to the number of alts people had. In WoD we'll have no lockouts so you bring 1 main and 24 alts to the new "heroic" mode and feed all the gear to this main, then repeat 19 times until everyone had their chance 5 pieces of gear per boss. On top of this, we also have the new "normal" mode to repeat it with....

Please don't make me run the first raid 20+ times in a week. :(

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:09 am
by Worldie
If people in top end guilds really do that for 25 people (thus running several istances of the raid 25 times per week) I'm very glad I quitted hardcore raiding in Wotlk.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:10 am
by Sagara
Era wrote:
Teranoid wrote:I've decided that I'm not even gonna worry about what they do with raids. As much as I love being a heroic raider I've already thrown in the towel due to RL and quite frankly the fact that I just don't care as much about raiding anymore.

Still gonna buy the expansion but I'm not fumbling my life for raiding anymore.


That's where I am now. Have to admit I miss it, though. At least MoP and WoD feel like fairly solid expansions to play in a casual manner.


Same. I had sworn off WoW when I stopped Hc raiding, but the casual-heavy help makes me think I'll see if we keep doing Flexes on MT and just raid that way when I can.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:33 pm
by Flex
Not sure why it took so long for me to realize it but they are building oQueue into the game.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:44 pm
by Qeeze
KysenMurrin wrote:They say they're going to try to get the expansion out faster this time, and that there won't be any more MoP content because it would delay the expac. So I wouldn't at all be surprised if there's another 10-12 months of Siege of Orgrimmar.


WoD is a lot farther along than most realize.

The rest of this year we'll get a regular stream of info, and beta in January.

Most of the big features are pretty much done btw.

My prediction as to when we see WoD released is April.

~~~~~~

We saw very few examples of loot. The few we saw showed some of the new affixes like movement speed on boots & cleave on gloves.
They did not talk a lot about professions. We did get the info about no meta gems, only 1 gem slot on drops that do have a slot, More enchants but only useable for a few types of items. It does look like there will be another legendary like we have with cloaks, and a much rarer one. Quest rewards that may roll as rare or even epic.

We saw almost no mention of PvP changes.

Obviously we'll see new racials.

In case you missed it no dailies to speak of, but all of the zones will have elements we saw in timeless isle.

They did mention leveling to 100 will be a lot less of a grind, and in fact called it as a romp to 100.

So we'll see a lot of info before the end of the year.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:01 pm
by Klaudandus
i am gonna miss dailies. 5.1 were the best dailies of MoP =(

And I know some people were talking about having problems getting gold as of lately since Timeless Isle provides so little.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:44 pm
by Ruldar
Flex wrote:Not sure why it took so long for me to realize it but they are building oQueue into the game.

That's a point I am very happy about. OQ has been a godsend since Flex was introduced, but a built-in replacement would be preferable.

Re: Warlords of Draenor

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:29 pm
by bldavis
Klaudandus wrote:i am gonna miss dailies. 5.1 were the best dailies of MoP =(

And I know some people were talking about having problems getting gold as of lately since Timeless Isle provides so little.

o/

though i think i just need to start clearing old raids again and selling all the loot, decent return on time