Warlords of Draenor

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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:02 pm

I think WoD - though I only saw 6.0 - did a lot of things right, but limited max level content was kind of an issue. Having the only daily content be filling a progress bar in a quest area was simpler but somehow less satisfying than some of the old daily quest rep grinds, to me.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:00 pm

no scenarios and dungeons having a really short shelf life also hurt. I mean, most people would do dungeons in the past for whatever currency in order to buy gear, now that was gone and the gear from the dungeon itself was obsolete almost right off the bat.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:22 pm

Klaudandus wrote:no scenarios and dungeons having a really short shelf life also hurt. I mean, most people would do dungeons in the past for whatever currency in order to buy gear, now that was gone and the gear from the dungeon itself was obsolete almost right off the bat.

I second this. They completely wasted dungeons. Dungeons should award current gear-currency (e.g. Apexis Crystals) either from bosses or upon completion. It would be simple to have garrison inn quests updated with relevant rewards, and even multipliers for difficulty (1x norm, 2x heroic, 4x mythic)

Just giving gear of X ilvl is always going to doom content to obsolescence.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Nooska » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:56 pm

I'll thir dit.

I've not even done all the dungeons, simply because they held no incentive for me (I like questing completely through a zone, so I rarely do dungeons as I'm levelling*)
Haven't even done mythic dungeons because I'm not sure why I would do them, even though I suppose gear might technically be a slight upgrade, I just can't be bothered.

I also like dthe dailies of Mists better, never mind the ranting about rep grinds being locked ( they unlocked it), somehow it seemed less annoying to go kill 20 of these, 10 of these and collect X of that thing on the ground than "go into this area and do stuff to fill the progress bar".
I also disliked Timeless Isle, and I'm seriously missing things to do in TJ for rep (apart from "go kill random things" - worst idea to keep imo - much rather have a daily lock on progression than "just go do it")


*It has nothing to do with being brought up on TBC heroics and fearing to go into a random group when I don't know everything there is to know about a dungeon, I swear
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby jere » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:03 am

I think dungeons have really fallen short in the last two expansions. MoP (and WoD) had no late game style dungeons, which a lot of my guildies and myself really enjoyed. WoD took out incentives.

I was never a huge fan of scenarios due to the lack of incentives (they were short, so I understand). I did like some of the overall designs for them.

For WoD, I just really liked the world, the questing, and the storyline (well I don't like the timetravel/multi universe aspect, but the zone to zone storylines were great). I liked some of the changes they made to professions (being able to start at skill level 1 is a good idea IMO), but hated how they made some useless or too tedious. I really like some of the cinematic presentations (Talador and Nagrand in particular).

Aside from Archy and Pet Battles, I wasn't really put off by the lack of flying. Avianna's feather appeased me and was very easy to get.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:24 pm

WoD is a really weird experience. Possibly the best leveling experience since Wrath... but once you hit lvl 100, it all grinds to a halt with nary any relevant content other than raids, and even then...

I mean, why were even raiding Highmail. Also, why only mythic raiders were the only ones to get the tidbit about Chogall at the end of Highmail (lorewise), I mean, they're likely the ones that care the least about lore.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Njall » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:07 am

Klaudandus wrote:WoD is a really weird experience. Possibly the best leveling experience since Wrath... but once you hit lvl 100, it all grinds to a halt with nary any relevant content other than raids, and even then...

I mean, why were even raiding Highmail. Also, why only mythic raiders were the only ones to get the tidbit about Chogall at the end of Highmail (lorewise), I mean, they're likely the ones that care the least about lore.



Unfortunately true. The massive design changes made during the development (read chopping content) really affected the end game. It felt as if they'd simply pulled it (and Goregorond was simiarly gutted story wise - Ogrim who?). Taanan is actually fairly decent as there's a few different things you can do to 'fill up the bar'. But prior to 6.2 I felt it was a whole 'phony war' or 'Sitskreig' (WWII Winter 1939). But BRF has some good story and is an excellent raid, even on LFR. And I admit I suffer from hammer lust for Blackrock's weapon.

Interestingly, if you can get past the outer shell of guards, the town of Highmaul is surprisingly friendly. It was nice to see. I would still love to see Ogres as player character.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:23 am

New stuff being added: Valor points from Mythic dungeons (and some other sources) that can upgrade ilvl, and adding several new dungeons to the Timewalking rotation: a Cataclysm set, as well as Magister's Terrace and Pit of Saron (two of my favorite pieces of content in BC/Wrath). They'll be nerfed of course, but eh.

This is tempting me to get my death knight to 100 and start tanking dungeons again, something I haven't done since levelling my first char in WoD. What kind of ilvl do I need to tank Mythic (both to survive and to get into groups), and is it noticeably harder than tanking heroics - talking gameplay here, so comparing how they feel when you're just geared enough for the respective types?

edit: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/199137 ... 10-14-2015
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:42 am

Mythic dungeons are MUCH harder than heroic. You won't get in a group with less than 680, and probably not even then.
You require CC, interrupts, impressive healing skills and whatever else.

Yes Mythic dungeons are actually difficult :P
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:50 am

Worldie wrote:You require CC, interrupts, impressive healing skills and whatever else.

Yes Mythic dungeons are actually difficult :P


Aw man, that's what I've been dreaming of for years. Is it even possible to get into pugs without at least Normal raiding gear?

May have to run heroics just to polish off my rusty tanking skills as well, if they're not so easy that there's nothing to learn.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:13 am

I managed to pug a few Mythic Dungeons as healer with no raid gear other than the chest rewards as soon as i hit the dreaded 680 (people tend to get desperate for tank/healers and accept you without impressive gear, not quite as easy as DPS).
The step from heroics to mythic dungeons was MASSIVE for me, Mythic for my paladin healer is non stop spam of fast heals with cd usage on almost every pack, and if i stop by half second someone usually dies. And that is, if noone messes up interrupts / stuns or stands in shit. Standing in shit in Mythic dungeon is a near oneshot as far as I've noticed.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Fenris » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:24 am

Mythic dungeons are,indeed,almost "old times" level difficulty

That also means that if you end into them with the wrong people,you just waste an incredible amount of time for nothing
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:43 am

I still have nightmares of the spider + bats pack right after the worm boss in SMBG. I swear I took less damage while tanking Brutallus than the tank I had (who was actually a good player).
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Passionario » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:41 pm

Paxen wrote:New stuff being added: Valor points from Mythic dungeons (and some other sources) that can upgrade ilvl, and adding several new dungeons to the Timewalking rotation: a Cataclysm set, as well as Magister's Terrace and Pit of Saron (two of my favorite pieces of content in BC/Wrath). They'll be nerfed of course, but eh.

This is the kind of patch they should be doing every month or two.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby halabar » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:46 am

The one thing 6.2.3 does is get me off all the alt gearing and back on my main for valor grinding for a while. Need to get a good mythic dungeon team from my raid group.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:52 am

I like how they went from "Valor points were bad for the game and caused outburn so we remove them" to "Here have the same and Valor point stuff to do" within one expansion cycle.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby halabar » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:00 am

Yeah.. if I didn't already have 10 garrisons cooking with nothing else to do, I'd be annoyed about a new grind. Now I almost welcome it.

How much you want to bet that they remove valor again for Legion until they need filler content to keep people busy.

Basically 6.2.3 is a 6-month filler arc in your WoW anime...
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Fetzie » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:22 pm

Worldie wrote:I like how they went from "Valor points were bad for the game and caused outburn so we remove them" to "Here have the same and Valor point stuff to do" within one expansion cycle.


I guess that's what happens when people run out of things to do and write that in the "why are you stopping your subscription" box.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:34 am

Fetzie wrote:
Worldie wrote:I like how they went from "Valor points were bad for the game and caused outburn so we remove them" to "Here have the same and Valor point stuff to do" within one expansion cycle.


I guess that's what happens when people run out of things to do and write that in the "why are you stopping your subscription" box.

Likely

Another case of "too little,too late"
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Fenris » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:58 pm

And they added another masterstroke of stupidity

Valors are uncapped,but you get none from raiding anything above raid finder

Enjoy going for RF highmaul if you want/need upgrades fast
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:43 am

I liked the "We won't add a valor cap, but we cap how many you can get per week anyway"..... wut they really think that most of the population won't try to push for the 4900 per week asap?
They should have learned by now that people can't control themselves and prefer to overburn and "be done asap" rather than "play for fun"
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:23 am

Worldie wrote:I liked the "We won't add a valor cap, but we cap how many you can get per week anyway"..... wut they really think that most of the population won't try to push for the 4900 per week asap?
They should have learned by now that people can't control themselves and prefer to overburn and "be done asap" rather than "play for fun"


What I took from their statement is that most people *can* control themselves, and their data has shown that that breaks down more easily with a reasonable cap (because why wouldn't you cap) than with an obviously unreasonable one.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:24 am

Fenris wrote:And they added another masterstroke of stupidity

Valors are uncapped,but you get none from raiding anything above raid finder

Enjoy going for RF highmaul if you want/need upgrades fast


Valour is intended as an *alternate* progression path. Raiding (above RF) is the main progression path, so why would you add Valour to raids.
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Worldie » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:29 am

The problem is, it is not "alternate".
We all know that for any guild progressing it's going to become mandatory very fast to get all the gear to max upgrade.

You know it's going to happen, it has already happened in MoP, it has happened everytime Blizzard introduced something similar.

There's no "alternate path" in a MMO. There's only "have always the best you can get / buy"
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Re: Warlords of Draenor

Postby Paxen » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:48 am

Worldie wrote:There's no "alternate path" in a MMO. There's only "have always the best you can get / buy"


That's because every time somebody introduces a true alternate path the 1337 people cry over welfare epics.

(For me I couldn't care less, I don't play MMOs for gear, so it's a mostly theoretical discussion. Mostly.)
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