Coming Back to WoW?

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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Lieris » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:09 am

Worldie wrote:There is ways to impress people that go beyond a item.

Back in DS times, I got taken in a (good) guild that eventually cleared full Cata content when relevant, with my priest in essentially blue and welfare epics and nowhere close to get Dragonwrath, just because my application was so impressive.


Of course and in Sunwell we took a few players in greens (from a guild on the opposite faction that had disbanded because of Muru). There's always possibilities like that if you have the experience, are over 18 and can spell check an application.

I don't think anyone can argue however that the barrier to doing something like that is far greater than it has ever been. The DPS increases from the legendary meta and cloak are massive and when every DPSer has the possibility of having them (as opposed to Dragonwrath which was just a caster item) then that is what is expected of applicants.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:35 am

So wait there is a legendary gem and a tanking cloak? FF14 has been fun.. but still kind of caca. I'm just now hitting 30 and making Paladin now. I always wanted a legendary tanking shield ( AND I DONT CARE I WANT IT)

I've loved paladins since the burning crusade. I could talk for hours about World of Warcraft especially paladin tanks. Maybe I'll come back during the next expansion. I feel that my experience from Vanilla-Cata should be good enough to account for the gap in experience.

I should start to chat with folk I used to play with and read up on the lore.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Flex » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:50 am

The legendary is an expansion long chain with overlap between raid tiers.

5.0: Legendary 500 stat gem (special 5.0 raid weapons only)-> 5.1: Extra weapon socket (usable on 5.0 and 5.2 raid weapons only)->5.2 Legendary Meta Gem (usable on helms from 5.2 and 5.4 raids)->5.3: ilvl 600 epic cloak->5.4: Legendary Cloak upgrade to the 5.3 epic cloak.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:50 pm

Honestly speaking I think at this point the only "barrier" for a returning player is the 3k valor step.
It's like, retarded to say "here, you did well so far, now wait 3 weeks before you can do any progress".
Was even stupider when it was 6 weeks.

All other steps are very easy now with quest items achievable in the raids of the following tier. It's just that 3 week step.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Nooska » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:10 am

The 3k valor isn't the block, thats a measly 2 weeks 1 day (well it could be more if you don't cap your valor, but you are in complete control of that).
The block is the raid drops, specifically being able to do most raids in a timely fashion to maximize drops. The raid drops will (on average) take you more than 3 weeks.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:46 am

Not now. You can complete step 1 within 1 reset (actually with 100% drop in normal and droprate separated, you can if a bit lucky complete it by just running T14 raids, not even needing ToT / SoO).

Then there's step 2 and the 3k valor, which you can't complete in 2 weeks, because in order to complete step 1, you will have already earned some VPs that week, resulting in you having to wait at least 3 full resets, possibly 4 if you are already valor capped the week you complete step 1 (and you likely will be).

For step 3, you now have 12 bosses from ToT and 8 from SoO (totalling 20 bosses, 1 with guaranteed drop), so in normal luck conditions at 25% droprate, you should get it done within 3 resets and have your Legendary Meta.

At this point, it might take with 6 + 8 bosses again at 25% droprate + 1 guaranteed, about 3 weeks again to get the Legendary Cloak.


You say, it's time consuming.

However, if you want to join a serious heroic raiding guild, they are kinda justified for asking you to show them you are actually serious about being competitive by at very least putting that little effort to run LFR every reset (which you would run anyway for loots and VPs). If you don't have the time / will to run LFR and do a little farming now, how can you show them you will do that for progression?

If you are to join a Flex or normal raiding guild that demands you to have legendary cloak, then you probably don't want to join that guild anyway, tbh.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Lieris » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:35 am

I resubbed around the second week of august and have been doing LFR every week since then and completed the 3K Valour thing in the most efficient manner possible. If I am lucky I will finish the cloak by the end of the month.

Of course it should be expected of people who have stayed subscribed all year but I don't think it's fair that returning players be locked out of heroic raiding for 3 months if that's what they want to do and have a guild willing to gear them up.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:43 am

Note Lieris that the buff to droprates and 8 bosses of SoO added are a recent thing. Before that, completing step 3 would take AGES due to low droprates, and step 1 was tedious due to not having 12 bosses in ToT + 8 in SoO extra, and excess sigils dropping instead of the ones you are missing (been at the 20+9 point with an alt myself)

5.4 did a huuuuuge simplification of the questline, literally doubling or tripling the bosses you can get quest items from.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Fetzie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:41 am

Worldie wrote:Note Lieris that the buff to droprates and 8 bosses of SoO added are a recent thing. Before that, completing step 3 would take AGES due to low droprates, and step 1 was tedious due to not having 12 bosses in ToT + 8 in SoO extra, and excess sigils dropping instead of the ones you are missing (been at the 20+9 point with an alt myself)

5.4 did a huuuuuge simplification of the questline, literally doubling or tripling the bosses you can get quest items from.


All that didn't change was the duration of the reputation grind.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Lieris » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:47 am

I did the sigils under the old system in 3 resets (while also making some headway into the 3K valour in the third reset) so even if I had done it in 5.4 it would have shaved off probably one reset.

I don't think the drop rates have been buffed, you just have more chances to get items and with the Runestones you now have 2 guaranteed a week (3 if you count Raden). While the catch-up system is appreciated you can still get unlucky. Whether the whole thing takes 2, 3 or 4 months isn't up to the player.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:37 am

I have a guildie who got 0 secrets from 26 non-Lei Shen bosses in a row. He ended up getting the last 12 he needed over the course of two weeks, but the RNG nature of it was still bullshit.

Not to mention the ridiculous time penalty on people who swap mains. Some kind of additional questline to make the legendaries account bound or in-account transferable with a 1 week CD or something would have been smart.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Teranoid » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:55 am

Lieris wrote:I resubbed around the second week of august and have been doing LFR every week since then and completed the 3K Valour thing in the most efficient manner possible. If I am lucky I will finish the cloak by the end of the month.

Of course it should be expected of people who have stayed subscribed all year but I don't think it's fair that returning players be locked out of heroic raiding for 3 months if that's what they want to do and have a guild willing to gear them up.


If you have a guild willing to take you then it should not be an issue for them to wait for you to finish the questline. We finished ToT 8/13H with 3 people not having their metas and I'd like to think we did just fine. Hell we just had two of them finish their cloaks last week.

If you're a quality player and the group is competent enough to realize "hey shit happens" then this shouldn't be an issue. If it is.. well maybe you should find another group.

I'm not defending Blizzard by the way because I think this entire legendary chain was fucking stupid from the power of the items to basically rendering main swaps almost impossible unless you spent 15 hours a week doing LFR on multiple characters.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Lieris » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:32 am

fuzzygeek wrote:I have a guildie who got 0 secrets from 26 non-Lei Shen bosses in a row. He ended up getting the last 12 he needed over the course of two weeks, but the RNG nature of it was still bullshit.

Not to mention the ridiculous time penalty on people who swap mains. Some kind of additional questline to make the legendaries account bound or in-account transferable with a 1 week CD or something would have been smart.


Agreed.

Teranoid wrote:If you have a guild willing to take you then it should not be an issue for them to wait for you to finish the questline. We finished ToT 8/13H with 3 people not having their metas and I'd like to think we did just fine. Hell we just had two of them finish their cloaks last week.

If you're a quality player and the group is competent enough to realize "hey shit happens" then this shouldn't be an issue. If it is.. well maybe you should find another group.

I'm not defending Blizzard by the way because I think this entire legendary chain was fucking stupid from the power of the items to basically rendering main swaps almost impossible unless you spent 15 hours a week doing LFR on multiple characters.


Missing one proc, that's manageable especially if it's a tank or healer. Missing both procs as DPS, that's just not possible.

I just see it as something that would be insurmountable should I have wanted to join a heroic guild for 5.4. If you don't have the gear because of the ridiculous item inflation and you don't have the legendary items plus on top of that the penalty for being melee in SoO then it really doesn't matter how good my application would be, I would be expecting others to carry me or just be brought along for farm bosses.

Just to reiterate (before anyone gets any ideas) I am not complaining, I don't want to raid heroic modes. I think it's clear though that the numbers and scaling on gear have become completely ridiculous and despite this being increasingly obvious since WotLK beta they've stupidly continued down this path. When you have ridiculous overpowered gear (with now 6+ different tiers of gear within each tier creating a gulf between the lowest and highest ends) because of scaling you need BOTH overpowered procs to even compete.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:53 am

I remember a blue post stating the droprate for all q items got buffed to 25%.

Though, I might have just dreamed it, doesn't necessarly have to be true.

And yeah, RNG bullshit is still bullshit even with 99% chance.
I remind one guildie rogue who still hadnt got his meta when people were already getting the step 4 completed.

While I like the idea of rewarding a hard work through lot of time for the legendary, I dislike that the punishment for changing main and returning players is too strong.
For how sad it is, for a serious hc raiding guild, unless you are a REALLY outstanding player worth taking even without, or a healer or tank whose procs arent *that* necessary (though still strong), if you are a DPS the meta and cloak provide such a stupidly high increase in damage done that not having it is almost as having 20+ ilvls less than a person with them.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Passionario » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:44 am

So how good is WoD? Asking for a friend. :D
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:58 pm

Awesome, in general. Though, it's easy to "run out of stuff to do" if you don't raid and have no way to get a solid 3v3 5v5 or rbg team.

More specific question can provide more specific answers.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arnock » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:27 pm

How does WoD compare to previous xpacs in playstyle? How does tanking and healing compare to, say, wrath?

I quit shortly before cataclysm, and tried to play again in panda, but wasn't feeling it and quit again a few months later.

I don't really have the time to commit to a full raid schedule anymore, and gave LFR a chance, but I was a bit disappointed when the fight instructions I was given as the main tank were: "Ignore mechanics."
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:49 pm

Can't really comment on the tanking bit, but for healing, you can actually go OOM if you aren't careful. A lot of that onus falls to the dps, making sure they aren't taking unnecessary damage and are doing enough damage to not drag out fights.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby lythac » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:17 am

Arnock wrote:I don't really have the time to commit to a full raid schedule anymore, and gave LFR a chance, but I was a bit disappointed when the fight instructions I was given as the main tank were: "Ignore mechanics."


With Normal and Heroic being Flexible size you should be able to find a guild where you can raid as little as 1 or 2 nights a week I would imagine. If you're a healer or ranged DPS that is.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Worldie » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:41 am

Don't bother with LFR, the goal this Exp was to make it even more facerollable than in MoP, and they succeded.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby honorshammer » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:11 am

Worldie wrote:Don't bother with LFR, the goal this Exp was to make it even more facerollable than in MoP, and they succeded.


It's not a bad way to fill in some gear slots until you get a Normal or Heroic drop.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Quietmode » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:13 am

I do LFR for the Runes (An the lolz, topping dps as a tank is fun)
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arnock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:05 pm

Worldie wrote:Don't bother with LFR, the goal this Exp was to make it even more facerollable than in MoP, and they succeded.



Well, that's... disappointing.

lythac wrote:With Normal and Heroic being Flexible size you should be able to find a guild where you can raid as little as 1 or 2 nights a week I would imagine. If you're a healer or ranged DPS that is.


Wait, normal and heroic have flexible raid sizes? I haven't kept up much with the news since quitting, but I thought flex was a separate tier between LFR and Normal in difficulty.

Also, are healers and dps actually in greater demand than tanks? That's pretty surprising.



How does tanking compare to panda? I wasn't crazy about how they shifted to the philosophy of passive threat/active mitigation instead of passive mitigation/active threat.
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Jadhzia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:32 pm

In fact, I feel that the current tier is the first one where we have four real, distinct, first-citizen difficulty modes. In Siege of Orgrimmar, flex felt more like an afterthought stuck between LFR and Normal...

This time LFR was made simpler, and it's actually pretty nice, because I have yet to see the neverending dramas we had in LFR-SoO last year. In 30 minutes, you clean a wing, smoothly and without pulling your hair even with half the raid made of incompetent/afk players. For the first time I even tagged in LFR as tank when I still needed gear from it. ;) And the short duration of LFR runs makes for shorter queues, it seems.

As for Normal and Heroic modes, yes they're flex, from 10 to 30 players. The scaling's supposed to be smooth, without noticeable breakpoints. At least in Normal mode, I can confirm that we didn't feel anything different with varying raid sizes, from 12 to 18.

I don't have any number to back this up, but I don't believe that dps are in greater demand than tanks or healers. Healing is now a bit more demanding and frustrating than in the previous expansion (but also more interesting, imho), which turned a number of people from that role when heroic dungeons were still relevant. Maybe that trend is reversing now, I don't know.

As for tanking, the mechanics are mostly unchanged from the previous expansion: you have to actually work for your ressources and your survival, but threat is completely irrelevant. The only major differences are 1) tanks rely more on their healers for survival and 2) Vengeance was removed and replaced by Resolve, so that our dps doesn't go through the roof artifically. Oh, and palatanks actually have good snap threat generation, for a change. ;)
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Re: Coming Back to WoW?

Postby Arnock » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:18 pm

Can't speak for panda and cataclysm, but from what I remember in TBC and wrath, we always had good snap threat. Didn't need to wait to build rage or sunder stacks, could just throw a shield, drop a consecration, and start whaling on the boss right away.
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