Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, PsiVen, Sabindeus, Aergis

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:34 am

Nikachelle wrote:
benebarba wrote:
Worldie wrote:It's still asians. WoW is not good enough for Asia, hence why they making several shifts there.
Too much F2p competition seeing WoW is payed on hours there.



Apparently not, or at least not entirely:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/08/01/activ ... scriber-l/

"Blizzard is working on making returning to the game easier for players who have left."

Totally going about it wrong imo.


Yep - though I actually am not entirely sure they are doing things just to that end, as opposed to 'letting people who are new to the genre get up and running quickly' that just happens to also let people who've come back get back in easier.

In my mind, it's hard to imagine folks leaving (for reasons aside from temporary ones), and suddenly being all 'ZOMG! I *gotta* get back into it'. Especially if your circle of friends left, your preferred server has turned into a ghost town, and the content simply isn't what you want.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:34 am

To be honest making "catchup" easy is a good thing. AS long as it doesn't turn in the wotlk/cata version, "farm 5 men till nausea and ignore everything from previous tiers".
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8702
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:54 pm

benebarba wrote:In my mind, it's hard to imagine folks leaving (for reasons aside from temporary ones), and suddenly being all 'ZOMG! I *gotta* get back into it'. Especially if your circle of friends left, your preferred server has turned into a ghost town, and the content simply isn't what you want.


I have a friend who did that recently, actually. I believe his rationale was that he had just spent like, a month studying for the bar exam, and wanted some nice familiar comfort food gaming to unwind with. This is despite our server being long since a ghost town and our guild being long since disbanded. The game is still just fun, and the easier it is to do Stuff, like raiding LFR, the easier it is for people like my friend to get a Scroll of Resurrection and just start having fun again.
Image
Turn In, an NPC interaction automator - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... rn-in.aspx
User avatar
Sabindeus
Moderator
 
Posts: 6047
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 9:24 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Taeron » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:41 am

Sabindeus wrote:I have a friend who did that recently, actually. I believe his rationale was that he had just spent like, a month studying for the bar exam, and wanted some nice familiar comfort food gaming to unwind with. This is despite our server being long since a ghost town and our guild being long since disbanded. The game is still just fun, and the easier it is to do Stuff, like raiding LFR, the easier it is for people like my friend to get a Scroll of Resurrection and just start having fun again.


Depends on the perspective of fun, I guess. One of my friends quit a couple of months ago and I know he misses the game, but it's stuff like LFR and pet battles that are actually helping him stay away, knowing that that's what's waiting for him if he returns. I guess if you are looking for a game where you can just press random buttons and gear a char through it, WoW offers a comfortable zone for returning players. But then again, for that kind of fun, you can just run your lvl60 Diablo3 char through normal again.

My point is that I wish Blizzard would have a different approach for welcoming back old players. Most people I know, who left, are old time gamers. People age 33 and over, people who grew up playing games back when games were still a challenging and - most of all - immersive piece of entertainment. I honestly don't know what they can offer though, but I think it could be something more than just "everything is 50% easier and you gain gear 500% faster".

*shrugs*
Taeron
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:44 am

Taeron wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:I have a friend who did that recently, actually. I believe his rationale was that he had just spent like, a month studying for the bar exam, and wanted some nice familiar comfort food gaming to unwind with. This is despite our server being long since a ghost town and our guild being long since disbanded. The game is still just fun, and the easier it is to do Stuff, like raiding LFR, the easier it is for people like my friend to get a Scroll of Resurrection and just start having fun again.


Depends on the perspective of fun, I guess. One of my friends quit a couple of months ago and I know he misses the game, but it's stuff like LFR and pet battles that are actually helping him stay away, knowing that that's what's waiting for him if he returns. I guess if you are looking for a game where you can just press random buttons and gear a char through it, WoW offers a comfortable zone for returning players. But then again, for that kind of fun, you can just run your lvl60 Diablo3 char through normal again.

My point is that I wish Blizzard would have a different approach for welcoming back old players. Most people I know, who left, are old time gamers. People age 33 and over, people who grew up playing games back when games were still a challenging and - most of all - immersive piece of entertainment. I honestly don't know what they can offer though, but I think it could be something more than just "everything is 50% easier and you gain gear 500% faster".

*shrugs*


Rose colored goggles.... yeah, farming heroics for weeks (or months) for gear was SO much better than LFR.. :roll:

Retuning the game to where it's all hard, getting one heroic done a night was a success, needing to buy arrows and bullets, you were in awe of gear from raids... just not gonna happen. The pace of the game was slower then, and you were lucky with an expac every 2.5 years.

The overall direction should be clear since they announced that Titan will not be subscription. The game world is changing.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Taeron » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:16 pm

halabar wrote:Rose colored goggles.... yeah, farming heroics for weeks (or months) for gear was SO much better than LFR.. :roll:

Retuning the game to where it's all hard, getting one heroic done a night was a success, needing to buy arrows and bullets, you were in awe of gear from raids... just not gonna happen. The pace of the game was slower then, and you were lucky with an expac every 2.5 years.

The overall direction should be clear since they announced that Titan will not be subscription. The game world is changing.


Apparently I worded myself poorly in my post and somehow made an impression that, albeit never mentioning it, I was actually talking about farming heroics and how old times were better. I apologize, English is not my first language and perhaps words I used also mean something else. My actual thinking is only that over time, perhaps the game could offer something else as content besides raiding for dummies and that perhaps obtaining gear isn't everything this game can be about. Maybe adding new stuff to do in the game could be the key on how to bring the old players back.

But it's just my personal thinking based on the talks I have with my friend.
Taeron
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Taeron wrote:
halabar wrote:Rose colored goggles.... yeah, farming heroics for weeks (or months) for gear was SO much better than LFR.. :roll:

Retuning the game to where it's all hard, getting one heroic done a night was a success, needing to buy arrows and bullets, you were in awe of gear from raids... just not gonna happen. The pace of the game was slower then, and you were lucky with an expac every 2.5 years.

The overall direction should be clear since they announced that Titan will not be subscription. The game world is changing.


Apparently I worded myself poorly in my post and somehow made an impression that, albeit never mentioning it, I was actually talking about farming heroics and how old times were better. I apologize, English is not my first language and perhaps words I used also mean something else. My actual thinking is only that over time, perhaps the game could offer something else as content besides raiding for dummies and that perhaps obtaining gear isn't everything this game can be about. Maybe adding new stuff to do in the game could be the key on how to bring the old players back.

But it's just my personal thinking based on the talks I have with my friend.


well, ultimately the game for most people now is about grind for gear to raid (at whatever level you raid), the exploration and adventure of the ride is pretty well lost. For what you are describing, they need to slow the pace down, I don't think they can do that now.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:32 pm

Being a young gamer (only 33 - average age is 37, I saw in a newspaper a few weeks ago, referencing some study), I can relate to the thing of things getting easier. The thing is, I can see it as natural. I don't have the patience (or rather time) to play nintendohard games anymore, I need some games that I can get into and do okey-fine in, without a huuuge time investment. This is because of changes that has happened in my life over time. Heck back in teh day I though Mario 3 was awesome (no save function, no new lives when you lost them, just game over). Today I wouldn't pick up a game that had either of those "features" because I play to be entertained - I did so back then as well, but requirements for being entertained has changed, and without the ability to set aside marathon sessions to maybe get somewhere, I need the save function, and I need the "not game over, use a continue" function in games like mario - otherwise I won't start, as I know I will feel like I've waste my time.

In regards to wow, I found the difficulty of normal t14 to bee a bit too harsh - mostly due to a number of coinciding events (the loss of key mnembers of our cata raid team mostly), I wasnt' expecting to be able to pick up and be heroic raiders, that was fine (well it would be nice to touch heroics a bit at least), but the checks were too tight in normal too - and when they relaxed them the damage was done and the split had started.

*thinks* In reality this part belongs in the heroic raiders/lfr/flex thread.

I think Blizzard needs to have a think about what Normal is supposed to be. Currently its mostly a stepping stone to delay heroic raiders, and flex seems to be aimed at what used to be the normal crowd, which leaves normal somewhere in between heroic and normal, wnd without a real niche of its own.
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:15 pm

Nooska wrote:Being a young gamer (only 33 - average age is 37, I saw in a newspaper a few weeks ago, referencing some study), I can relate to the thing of things getting easier. The thing is, I can see it as natural. I don't have the patience (or rather time) to play nintendohard games anymore, I need some games that I can get into and do okey-fine in, without a huuuge time investment. This is because of changes that has happened in my life over time. Heck back in teh day I though Mario 3 was awesome (no save function, no new lives when you lost them, just game over). Today I wouldn't pick up a game that had either of those "features" because I play to be entertained - I did so back then as well, but requirements for being entertained has changed, and without the ability to set aside marathon sessions to maybe get somewhere, I need the save function, and I need the "not game over, use a continue" function in games like mario - otherwise I won't start, as I know I will feel like I've waste my time.

In regards to wow, I found the difficulty of normal t14 to bee a bit too harsh - mostly due to a number of coinciding events (the loss of key mnembers of our cata raid team mostly), I wasnt' expecting to be able to pick up and be heroic raiders, that was fine (well it would be nice to touch heroics a bit at least), but the checks were too tight in normal too - and when they relaxed them the damage was done and the split had started.

*thinks* In reality this part belongs in the heroic raiders/lfr/flex thread.

I think Blizzard needs to have a think about what Normal is supposed to be. Currently its mostly a stepping stone to delay heroic raiders, and flex seems to be aimed at what used to be the normal crowd, which leaves normal somewhere in between heroic and normal, wnd without a real niche of its own.


Well ideally, you could really have separate progression paths for regular players and the "elite" players. The problem is I don't know if you can go back to that now. Genie is out of the bottle so to speak. Back in the day, leveling was a real adventure, and people didn't all have the expectation to make level cap in 3 days and start raiding the next. Things along the way were a challenge, and interesting. But that ship has long sailed. Perhaps Titan can recapture that. Or EQ Next.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Lieris » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:51 pm

Nooska wrote:Heck back in teh day I though Mario 3 was awesome (no save function, no new lives when you lost them, just game over). Today I wouldn't pick up a game that had either of those "features" because I play to be entertained - I did so back then as well, but requirements for being entertained has changed, and without the ability to set aside marathon sessions to maybe get somewhere, I need the save function, and I need the "not game over, use a continue" function in games like mario - otherwise I won't start, as I know I will feel like I've waste my time.


That's why you play the SNES port of Mario 3 instead; it has a save function. ;) Also a game over even in the NES game just boots you to the beginning of the world, it doesn't end the game but I understand the point you're getting at.

I need difficulty otherwise I feel completely disconnected from a game and my mind wanders into auto-pilot mode. If something is so easy that even people who don't otherwise play games can complete it, then I am not interested in doing it more than once (and having to do it again but with an extra add/debuff and more damage isn't compelling enough). It just becomes disposable entertainment. Conversely nearly 20 years later I will still go back and play Contra Hard Corps.

Fundamentally I don't see why we can't have the difficulty and progression of Classic/TBC with QOL improvements like dual spec, guild bank, having more than one viable spec per class, Jeeves, no longer having to level up weapon skill, raid markers, AOE looting etc. The WoW equivalent of putting the save feature into Mario 3.
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Worldie » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:52 pm

Essentially because that would make them lose 90% of the playerbase Lieris.

Remember WoW is firstly a money business, and believe it or not, a very high percent of the playerbase (I read the % of heroic raiders is single digit) is composed by casuals who don't give a fuck of the challenge and just want to relax and / or unleash their stress upon mobs / enemy chars.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8702
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Lieris » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:17 pm

Worldie wrote:Essentially because that would make them lose 90% of the playerbase Lieris.

Remember WoW is firstly a money business, and believe it or not, a very high percent of the playerbase (I read the % of heroic raiders is single digit) is composed by casuals who don't give a fuck of the challenge and just want to relax and / or unleash their stress upon mobs / enemy chars.


Then why did TBC have more people paying $15 a month (prior to coming out in any Asia country) than the game does now with a global player base and variable payment models? Hardcore raiders were only a tiny percentage yet the game continued to grow. Obviously the game was newer and interacting with characters from WC3 is much more compelling than a silly easter egg race but it wouldn't have been so popular if stuff like not being skilled enough to raid Sunwell was so dreadful.

Ultimately with flying mounts, stripping the game world of any danger and sense of exploration, LFR and LFD Blizzard have either replaced the old user base with a new one or socially engineered people to expect to finish the game with minimal effort so I appreciate they would lose subscribers but isn't that already happening? If this model was really working they shouldn't be haemoraging subs. If people weren't so attached to their main character I bet they would be losing subs at an even greater rate.
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Worldie » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:13 pm

What would you do if you were Blizzard, accept the loss of a quarter of the player base over 4 years, or accomodate that 1% of heroic raiders and lose 99% of the playerbase within a couple months?.


I think your most correct line is
replaced the old user base with a new one
.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8702
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Taeron » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:46 pm

I don't know what the biggest reason is for people leaving WoW in such high numbers lately - is it just burnout after years of playing the same game or is the content that they feel is no longer giving them what they want - but as soon as they start talking about trying to get back old WoW gamers, I feel like just throwing gear at them won't do.

I think the old style gamer expects a little more from a fantasy game. Sure, it's nice if you can catch up quickly, but just that isn't an incentive enough to bring back previous subscribers because I doubt they left in the first place because they didn't get gear fast enough.

Maybe I'm just seeing this from a too subjective point of view, but Blizzard seems so darn careful - for lack of better word - when implementing something really NEW to the game, always falling back on one liners from official forums. I mean, sure, maybe things old MMO players are used to aren't neccessarely an efficient mechanics to obtain yet more gear, but they might add something to immersion and overall quality of the game world.

If the next expansion does turn out to be with a Burning Legion theme, I wonder if a change from killing oversized rabbits and teaching fish how to hold a shield will be at least a small appeal for the old WoW fans.
Taeron
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Thels » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:04 am

Making it easier to catch up is not an incentive for players to return. It's to prevent players that returned from immediately leaving again, since it's too hard to catch up.

If you return now, but it takes you weeks-months to catch up to your friends and start raiding with them again, you're likely to quite the game again soon.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Taeron » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:36 am

Thels wrote:Making it easier to catch up is not an incentive for players to return. It's to prevent players that returned from immediately leaving again, since it's too hard to catch up.

If you return now, but it takes you weeks-months to catch up to your friends and start raiding with them again, you're likely to quite the game again soon.


I understand that and it makes perfect sense, but what are you telling the older player he or she is catching up to upon returning? Right now, they're catching up to the same things that made them quit in the first place.

I don't know what I'd do to bring old players back, to be honest, but I was hoping we'd maybe see something cool. As arbitrary as that sounds, heh. I am really looking forward to the info on the new expansion and I hope it will be appealing to the players who enjoyed the universe of Warcraft. Would be great to see some old names that quit in the past couple of years back in the game, even if that is quite unlikely.

Or perhaps announcement of WoW 2 :)
Taeron
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Darielle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:17 am

Being a young gamer (only 33 - average age is 37, I saw in a newspaper a few weeks ago, referencing some study), I can relate to the thing of things getting easier.


Part of this of course is because the concept of a gamer itself has changed. Back in the day, the person playing Solitaire or Tetris at office wouldn't have been considered a gamer, but nowadays the person who tabs out to do something on Farmville or secretly plays Angry Birds IS a gamer.

What would you do if you were Blizzard, accept the loss of a quarter of the player base over 4 years, or accomodate that 1% of heroic raiders and lose 99% of the playerbase within a couple months?.


Side note: This is a silly misuse of numbers based on a relatively silly statement from Blizzard. I've seen it perpetuated from Blizzard as well.

There's no "1% of Heroic Raiders" or anything like that, and there's certainly no concept that a change to raiding will lose 99% of the playerbase within a couple of months; said 99% of the playerbase are NOT even majorly lvl 90 let alone caring about raiding. It's a bastardisation of the quote back when Blizzard was talking about how they remembered only 300 guilds killing Kel'Thuzad or 1% saw Kil'Jaeden dead, and of course you didn't need to have KT dead or KJ dead to be a Heroic Raider any more than you must have Ra-Den dead to be a Heroic Raider now, and it didn't even make proper sense back when they first speculated with those guesstimates because, again, it's not like the majority of the playerbase is even level 90 or in a position to raid, so counting millions of people in a statistic irrelevant to them is silly.
Darielle
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:41 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Lieris » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:58 am

Darielle wrote:
What would you do if you were Blizzard, accept the loss of a quarter of the player base over 4 years, or accomodate that 1% of heroic raiders and lose 99% of the playerbase within a couple months?.


Side note: This is a silly misuse of numbers based on a relatively silly statement from Blizzard. I've seen it perpetuated from Blizzard as well.

There's no "1% of Heroic Raiders" or anything like that, and there's certainly no concept that a change to raiding will lose 99% of the playerbase within a couple of months; said 99% of the playerbase are NOT even majorly lvl 90 let alone caring about raiding. It's a bastardisation of the quote back when Blizzard was talking about how they remembered only 300 guilds killing Kel'Thuzad or 1% saw Kil'Jaeden dead, and of course you didn't need to have KT dead or KJ dead to be a Heroic Raider any more than you must have Ra-Den dead to be a Heroic Raider now, and it didn't even make proper sense back when they first speculated with those guesstimates because, again, it's not like the majority of the playerbase is even level 90 or in a position to raid, so counting millions of people in a statistic irrelevant to them is silly.


Thank you for addressing this hyperbole.

I will preface this by saying that TBC was deeply flawed especially with the 40 man squish to 25 man, down to 10 man groups for Karazhan then back to 25 for (an over-tuned) Gruul's Lair but other than that progression was well designed. Back then people were okay with not blitzing through all the content on ridiculously easy difficulty modes. I was moooooooonths behind for most of TBC and that was fine! You could go at your own pace and you didn't care that the top guilds were farming Black Temple while you were still in SSC; there were guilds progressing on all of the tiers and it didn't matter that the top guilds had killed bosses long before you had, it still felt fantastic. Progressive targeted nerfs across all bosses meant you never felt robbed of a kill (as opposed to the lazy flat 30% nerfs in Cataclysm) and they allowed guilds to overcome what would otherwise be brick walls. By the time you got to a boss you might be fighting version 6 or 7 of it and that was okay because you didn't want to fight version 1 with the buggy or stupid mechanics anyway!

Throwing easy gear at me won't get me to resubscribe (I still might though to experience the story). I would actually be more inclined to if I could raid T14 and like with TBC, progress at my own pace on the only existing difficulty level and experience that same feeling of accomplishment as those who did it 9 months ago.
Lieris
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:49 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:35 am

Darielle wrote:
Being a young gamer (only 33 - average age is 37, I saw in a newspaper a few weeks ago, referencing some study), I can relate to the thing of things getting easier.


Part of this of course is because the concept of a gamer itself has changed. Back in the day, the person playing Solitaire or Tetris at office wouldn't have been considered a gamer, but nowadays the person who tabs out to do something on Farmville or secretly plays Angry Birds IS a gamer.


I'm pretty sure the referenced study is not farmville and Angry Birds included. The average I believe, because it would include exactly the people I would suspsect, those a bit older than me that I know game, as a majority group (to be honest, I'm not 100% sure whether it was average or median age).
It would take the Vic120/C64/Amiga generation(s) and have them continue gaming, which I do find believable.

If it included solitaire, farmville or angry birds, I would expect the number to be quite a lot higher.
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:18 pm

a couple thoughts:
1) Trying to get people back who left is a tougher battle than getting new people in: the folks who left (again aside from those who left for some temporary reason such as time or money) generally will have some big reason that they'll need to be convinced isn't likely to still be there, and very well may be savvy enough to tell the difference between actual change and marketing change. New folks just have to go 'ooh! shiny!' and get into whatever is there, or not.

2) Business-wise, it doesn't matter if your players change daily or you have the same pile of players: as long as the ratio of money coming in relative to the money going out stays the same or grows , it's a *business* win. However, you can easily drive a product into the ground chasing popularity alone... since once you lose a dedicated customer-base, you lose the 'sure thing' sales and replace them with the fickle mob. This is where small companies can make that 'we don't chase profits alone' stand, but it all depends on who's running the show.

3) I think a comment I read a while back essentially saying that Blizz kind of blew thier lore-load with Wrath is pretty much dead on: The draw from the RTSs is pretty much done. It had to happen some time, but now we're in the far more debatable waters of 'new canon', which they are trying to work in a far more 'multimedia' manner, which isn't really cutting it for everyone. Maybe an Emerald Dream or Burning Legion or Argus expansion could bring some folks back who really cared about that stuff. But the folks who simply see a game they no longer want to play probably aren't going to come back, and frankly it's tough to say what changes/additions could even start to bring some of them back (i.e. anecdote =/= data, and what customers say they want doesn't always equal what they actually want, let alone 'need').
benebarba
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Darielle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:40 pm

I'm pretty sure the referenced study is not farmville and Angry Birds included. The average I believe, because it would include exactly the people I would suspsect, those a bit older than me that I know game, as a majority group (to be honest, I'm not 100% sure whether it was average or median age).
It would take the Vic120/C64/Amiga generation(s) and have them continue gaming, which I do find believable.

If it included solitaire, farmville or angry birds, I would expect the number to be quite a lot higher.


If it DOESN'T include Farmville or Angry Birds (or Temple Run or Fruit Ninja or Just Dance - WII or Guitar Hero) for current stats, it's not a very good study. They're extremely popular games made by studios that are examples of the rise in casual gaming.
Darielle
 
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:41 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Rhiannon » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:08 pm

Nooska wrote:
Darielle wrote:
Being a young gamer (only 33 - average age is 37, I saw in a newspaper a few weeks ago, referencing some study), I can relate to the thing of things getting easier.


Part of this of course is because the concept of a gamer itself has changed. Back in the day, the person playing Solitaire or Tetris at office wouldn't have been considered a gamer, but nowadays the person who tabs out to do something on Farmville or secretly plays Angry Birds IS a gamer.


I'm pretty sure the referenced study is not farmville and Angry Birds included. The average I believe, because it would include exactly the people I would suspsect, those a bit older than me that I know game, as a majority group (to be honest, I'm not 100% sure whether it was average or median age).
It would take the Vic120/C64/Amiga generation(s) and have them continue gaming, which I do find believable.

If it included solitaire, farmville or angry birds, I would expect the number to be quite a lot higher.


Whatever newspaper article you read was more than likely based on out of date information:

http://kotaku.com/5931077/the-average-a ... rs-um-what

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/h ... k-to-2005/

http://www.theesa.com/facts/

Angry birds etc. is included.

I would also suggest that gaming in the "Vic120/C64/Amiga generation(s)" had much shallower penetration than gaming does now.
Rhiannon
 
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:17 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:11 am

Darielle wrote:
I'm pretty sure the referenced study is not farmville and Angry Birds included. The average I believe, because it would include exactly the people I would suspsect, those a bit older than me that I know game, as a majority group (to be honest, I'm not 100% sure whether it was average or median age).
It would take the Vic120/C64/Amiga generation(s) and have them continue gaming, which I do find believable.

If it included solitaire, farmville or angry birds, I would expect the number to be quite a lot higher.


If it DOESN'T include Farmville or Angry Birds (or Temple Run or Fruit Ninja or Just Dance - WII or Guitar Hero) for current stats, it's not a very good study. They're extremely popular games made by studios that are examples of the rise in casual gaming.


Well, as I don't have the newspaper by me, I'm not going to claim a whole lot, since I can't source check.
However, I would consider a "gamer" to be someone who did more than casual gaming - I would classify that as a different category, and with a known overlap (meaning the study could still be good).

Trying to remember the exact wording, it would translate to "the average age of people playing computer games" where the wording for something that includes casual games would have been different, referencing specifically online/casual games (its a pretty serious newspaper that presented some fun and/or interesting factoids in a summer issue (to fill out space I'm guessing) - however if that is a journalistic misunderstanding, I cannot vouch for.
I only brought it up peripherally, and I only becaus ethe number jives with what I would expect going in to such a study (especially if its a mean age, rather than an average - regardless of what was noted in the newspaper, I know a lot of danse don't know the difference, so that could also be on the journalist).
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Passionario » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:29 am

I think that Blizzard should accept that many people quit for good and fully embrace the churn.

Yes, there are more WoW ex-players than there are current players. The same is true for Warhammer 40K and Magic: the Gathering, but you don't see GW and WotC bending over backwards to recapture those who stopped playing.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 2255
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:35 am

Passionario: do you honestly claim that wow has had more than 16 million players? (actual number must be a bit higher for that claim, as there was 12 million at one point)
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest