Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Teranoid » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:50 am

Breaking news people get tired of playing almost 9 year old video game.

In a related story: Who fucking cares? I will never understand why people are so infatuated with all of this about sub losses and "hurr wow is dying" and all this bullshit.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Shoju » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:53 am

Worldie wrote:People who quit will always come back at the next expansion... ;)


The one raid that I would have done anything to be a part of (Killing Garrosh), Brawler's Guild, and a few other things were all "Shoju! Come Back! We made this JUST FOR YOU!" Type moments this expac.

I wavered once, and thought about coming back.

And then I just didn't. I've been gone 13 months. My guild was absorbed by another guild. There is no coming back for me at this point.

Guess I missed the part where Nika Quit.... Wow. Figured you and Invis were in it to win it... so to speak.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:56 am

Teranoid wrote:Breaking news people get tired of playing almost 9 year old video game.

In a related story: Who fucking cares? I will never understand why people are so infatuated with all of this about sub losses and "hurr wow is dying" and all this bullshit.


That's easy, to justify their own choices, and reassure themselves that they are doing fine without their fix. :lol:
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:13 am

halabar wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Breaking news people get tired of playing almost 9 year old video game.

In a related story: Who fucking cares? I will never understand why people are so infatuated with all of this about sub losses and "hurr wow is dying" and all this bullshit.


That's easy, to justify their own choices, and reassure themselves that they are doing fine without their fix. :lol:



but strangely, it seems that a big number of the vocal doomsayers seem to be that guy who's sitting on his porch talking about how the neighborhood's gone to hell because of those people over there across the street, but they sure as heck ain't going to leave because those other neighborhoods suck too.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Amirya » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:14 am

Shoju wrote:Guess I missed the part where Nika Quit.... Wow. Figured you and Invis were in it to win it... so to speak.

I believe Invis actually quit before Nika did.

My feeling is that, progressively, there is less and less WOW! moments in the game anymore. I'm not bothering with the legendary chain anymore, because it wasn't something I cared about. I've actually sunk low enough to play Wowkemon now, and that shit irritates me.

Mostly, my WOW! moments in the game are usually in reference to most of my guildmates (barring a few that I do enjoy, it's mostly "WOW! I figured <such and such> was more mature/responsible/communicative, and not such a douche/jerk/oblivious idiot").

Alas, I think my day is coming soon. But, I hope it comes after Nika returns! :mrgreen: (I jest!)
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:47 am

benebarba wrote:
halabar wrote:
Teranoid wrote:Breaking news people get tired of playing almost 9 year old video game.

In a related story: Who fucking cares? I will never understand why people are so infatuated with all of this about sub losses and "hurr wow is dying" and all this bullshit.


That's easy, to justify their own choices, and reassure themselves that they are doing fine without their fix. :lol:



but strangely, it seems that a big number of the vocal doomsayers seem to be that guy who's sitting on his porch talking about how the neighborhood's gone to hell because of those people over there across the street, but they sure as heck ain't going to leave because those other neighborhoods suck too.


Well, the justification works on both sides of the fence, that's why there was so much fire around Shoju's "why I'm quitting WoW (and you should too)" manifestos. :D
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:37 pm

Sagara wrote:Yeah, it's mostly curiosity, and some FUCKING way to shut "conspiracy theory" types up.


THERE IS ONLY ENOUGH STORY FOR ONE MORE EXPANSION AND THEN THEY ARE GOING TO SHUT DOWN WOW AND MAKE EVERYONE PLAY TITAN.

People are idiots.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:57 pm

I still wonder if I'm the only one who loves pokewow and think it's a great addition to the game!
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Teranoid » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:25 pm

Worldie wrote:I still wonder if I'm the only one who loves pokewow and think it's a great addition to the game!


I really enjoy it.. other people probably would too if they weren't so busy proclaiming that it's the end of days for the ninth time in 3 years.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:08 pm

Amirya wrote:
Shoju wrote:Guess I missed the part where Nika Quit.... Wow. Figured you and Invis were in it to win it... so to speak.

I believe Invis actually quit before Nika did.

Nope. We stopped raiding at the same time.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Arnock » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:33 pm

Worldie wrote:People who quit will always come back at the next expansion... ;)



I managed to skip cataclysm all together, came back about a month or 2 ago, and I'm probably going to drop off again soon.

There's nothing really compelling left in wow for me anymore.

I might come back for the siege of org content, just to see the conclusion of the whole garrosh storyline that's been brewing since wrath, but other than that... meh.

benebarba wrote:FWIW:
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

In short, it's not until 1Q 2009 that wow sees a drop in sub numbers period. It drops from 12 to 11.5 Million by 3Q 2009, goes back to 12 in 3Q 2010, then declines to the end of the chart at the end of 4Q 2011 (If I follow the graph right).



It'd be interesting to see a chart of EVE's subscribers, it still seems to be going strong despite its age.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:06 am

Arnock wrote:It'd be interesting to see a chart of EVE's subscribers, it still seems to be going strong despite its age.


500K as of earlier this year, apparently. And according to the chart below, it was essentially growing all the way up to 2012, with some fluctuations, but a generally rising trend.

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

I imagine a large part of that has to do with the difference in gameplay as I understand it. I could see any game based on PVP action having much greater staying power even if it included a gear-grind... possibly even moreso if it didn't ala LOL or TF2...of course those last 2 are also F2P, so that itself sets up some differences.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:11 am

Worldie wrote:It's still asians. WoW is not good enough for Asia, hence why they making several shifts there.
Too much F2p competition seeing WoW is payed on hours there.



Apparently not, or at least not entirely:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/08/01/activ ... scriber-l/
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Lieris » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:07 am

I wish they would break it down by revenue. A subscriber is defined as someone who buys any amount of game time during the quarter so someone in Korea might just buy 1 hour of game time and they would count the same as someone buying 20 hours a week, just like someone buying a 1 month game card in the west counts the same as someone who keeps a rolling 1 month subscription.

My hunch is that Classic/TBC/WOTLK revenue was considerably larger than what they are making on MOP. TBC was MASSIVELY delayed in Asia (by about 12-18 months IIRC) so the subscription numbers from back then are almost entirely using the $15~ a month payment model and I remember retention being extremely high.

WOTLK was a bit better and you started to see Korean and Taiwanese guilds make a name for themselves but again it took quite a while for mainland China to get the expansion. It wasn't until Cataclysm that release dates were concurrent worldwide but despite now being established in Asia (which they weren't at all in Classic and TBC) this the subscription numbers have continued to drop. You can't put a positive spin on this.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:23 am

benebarba wrote:
Worldie wrote:It's still asians. WoW is not good enough for Asia, hence why they making several shifts there.
Too much F2p competition seeing WoW is payed on hours there.



Apparently not, or at least not entirely:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/08/01/activ ... scriber-l/

"Blizzard is working on making returning to the game easier for players who have left."

Totally going about it wrong imo.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:34 am

Nikachelle wrote:
benebarba wrote:
Worldie wrote:It's still asians. WoW is not good enough for Asia, hence why they making several shifts there.
Too much F2p competition seeing WoW is payed on hours there.



Apparently not, or at least not entirely:

http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/08/01/activ ... scriber-l/

"Blizzard is working on making returning to the game easier for players who have left."

Totally going about it wrong imo.


Yep - though I actually am not entirely sure they are doing things just to that end, as opposed to 'letting people who are new to the genre get up and running quickly' that just happens to also let people who've come back get back in easier.

In my mind, it's hard to imagine folks leaving (for reasons aside from temporary ones), and suddenly being all 'ZOMG! I *gotta* get back into it'. Especially if your circle of friends left, your preferred server has turned into a ghost town, and the content simply isn't what you want.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:34 am

To be honest making "catchup" easy is a good thing. AS long as it doesn't turn in the wotlk/cata version, "farm 5 men till nausea and ignore everything from previous tiers".
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Sabindeus » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:54 pm

benebarba wrote:In my mind, it's hard to imagine folks leaving (for reasons aside from temporary ones), and suddenly being all 'ZOMG! I *gotta* get back into it'. Especially if your circle of friends left, your preferred server has turned into a ghost town, and the content simply isn't what you want.


I have a friend who did that recently, actually. I believe his rationale was that he had just spent like, a month studying for the bar exam, and wanted some nice familiar comfort food gaming to unwind with. This is despite our server being long since a ghost town and our guild being long since disbanded. The game is still just fun, and the easier it is to do Stuff, like raiding LFR, the easier it is for people like my friend to get a Scroll of Resurrection and just start having fun again.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Taeron » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:41 am

Sabindeus wrote:I have a friend who did that recently, actually. I believe his rationale was that he had just spent like, a month studying for the bar exam, and wanted some nice familiar comfort food gaming to unwind with. This is despite our server being long since a ghost town and our guild being long since disbanded. The game is still just fun, and the easier it is to do Stuff, like raiding LFR, the easier it is for people like my friend to get a Scroll of Resurrection and just start having fun again.


Depends on the perspective of fun, I guess. One of my friends quit a couple of months ago and I know he misses the game, but it's stuff like LFR and pet battles that are actually helping him stay away, knowing that that's what's waiting for him if he returns. I guess if you are looking for a game where you can just press random buttons and gear a char through it, WoW offers a comfortable zone for returning players. But then again, for that kind of fun, you can just run your lvl60 Diablo3 char through normal again.

My point is that I wish Blizzard would have a different approach for welcoming back old players. Most people I know, who left, are old time gamers. People age 33 and over, people who grew up playing games back when games were still a challenging and - most of all - immersive piece of entertainment. I honestly don't know what they can offer though, but I think it could be something more than just "everything is 50% easier and you gain gear 500% faster".

*shrugs*
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:44 am

Taeron wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:I have a friend who did that recently, actually. I believe his rationale was that he had just spent like, a month studying for the bar exam, and wanted some nice familiar comfort food gaming to unwind with. This is despite our server being long since a ghost town and our guild being long since disbanded. The game is still just fun, and the easier it is to do Stuff, like raiding LFR, the easier it is for people like my friend to get a Scroll of Resurrection and just start having fun again.


Depends on the perspective of fun, I guess. One of my friends quit a couple of months ago and I know he misses the game, but it's stuff like LFR and pet battles that are actually helping him stay away, knowing that that's what's waiting for him if he returns. I guess if you are looking for a game where you can just press random buttons and gear a char through it, WoW offers a comfortable zone for returning players. But then again, for that kind of fun, you can just run your lvl60 Diablo3 char through normal again.

My point is that I wish Blizzard would have a different approach for welcoming back old players. Most people I know, who left, are old time gamers. People age 33 and over, people who grew up playing games back when games were still a challenging and - most of all - immersive piece of entertainment. I honestly don't know what they can offer though, but I think it could be something more than just "everything is 50% easier and you gain gear 500% faster".

*shrugs*


Rose colored goggles.... yeah, farming heroics for weeks (or months) for gear was SO much better than LFR.. :roll:

Retuning the game to where it's all hard, getting one heroic done a night was a success, needing to buy arrows and bullets, you were in awe of gear from raids... just not gonna happen. The pace of the game was slower then, and you were lucky with an expac every 2.5 years.

The overall direction should be clear since they announced that Titan will not be subscription. The game world is changing.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Taeron » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:16 pm

halabar wrote:Rose colored goggles.... yeah, farming heroics for weeks (or months) for gear was SO much better than LFR.. :roll:

Retuning the game to where it's all hard, getting one heroic done a night was a success, needing to buy arrows and bullets, you were in awe of gear from raids... just not gonna happen. The pace of the game was slower then, and you were lucky with an expac every 2.5 years.

The overall direction should be clear since they announced that Titan will not be subscription. The game world is changing.


Apparently I worded myself poorly in my post and somehow made an impression that, albeit never mentioning it, I was actually talking about farming heroics and how old times were better. I apologize, English is not my first language and perhaps words I used also mean something else. My actual thinking is only that over time, perhaps the game could offer something else as content besides raiding for dummies and that perhaps obtaining gear isn't everything this game can be about. Maybe adding new stuff to do in the game could be the key on how to bring the old players back.

But it's just my personal thinking based on the talks I have with my friend.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Taeron wrote:
halabar wrote:Rose colored goggles.... yeah, farming heroics for weeks (or months) for gear was SO much better than LFR.. :roll:

Retuning the game to where it's all hard, getting one heroic done a night was a success, needing to buy arrows and bullets, you were in awe of gear from raids... just not gonna happen. The pace of the game was slower then, and you were lucky with an expac every 2.5 years.

The overall direction should be clear since they announced that Titan will not be subscription. The game world is changing.


Apparently I worded myself poorly in my post and somehow made an impression that, albeit never mentioning it, I was actually talking about farming heroics and how old times were better. I apologize, English is not my first language and perhaps words I used also mean something else. My actual thinking is only that over time, perhaps the game could offer something else as content besides raiding for dummies and that perhaps obtaining gear isn't everything this game can be about. Maybe adding new stuff to do in the game could be the key on how to bring the old players back.

But it's just my personal thinking based on the talks I have with my friend.


well, ultimately the game for most people now is about grind for gear to raid (at whatever level you raid), the exploration and adventure of the ride is pretty well lost. For what you are describing, they need to slow the pace down, I don't think they can do that now.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:32 pm

Being a young gamer (only 33 - average age is 37, I saw in a newspaper a few weeks ago, referencing some study), I can relate to the thing of things getting easier. The thing is, I can see it as natural. I don't have the patience (or rather time) to play nintendohard games anymore, I need some games that I can get into and do okey-fine in, without a huuuge time investment. This is because of changes that has happened in my life over time. Heck back in teh day I though Mario 3 was awesome (no save function, no new lives when you lost them, just game over). Today I wouldn't pick up a game that had either of those "features" because I play to be entertained - I did so back then as well, but requirements for being entertained has changed, and without the ability to set aside marathon sessions to maybe get somewhere, I need the save function, and I need the "not game over, use a continue" function in games like mario - otherwise I won't start, as I know I will feel like I've waste my time.

In regards to wow, I found the difficulty of normal t14 to bee a bit too harsh - mostly due to a number of coinciding events (the loss of key mnembers of our cata raid team mostly), I wasnt' expecting to be able to pick up and be heroic raiders, that was fine (well it would be nice to touch heroics a bit at least), but the checks were too tight in normal too - and when they relaxed them the damage was done and the split had started.

*thinks* In reality this part belongs in the heroic raiders/lfr/flex thread.

I think Blizzard needs to have a think about what Normal is supposed to be. Currently its mostly a stepping stone to delay heroic raiders, and flex seems to be aimed at what used to be the normal crowd, which leaves normal somewhere in between heroic and normal, wnd without a real niche of its own.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:15 pm

Nooska wrote:Being a young gamer (only 33 - average age is 37, I saw in a newspaper a few weeks ago, referencing some study), I can relate to the thing of things getting easier. The thing is, I can see it as natural. I don't have the patience (or rather time) to play nintendohard games anymore, I need some games that I can get into and do okey-fine in, without a huuuge time investment. This is because of changes that has happened in my life over time. Heck back in teh day I though Mario 3 was awesome (no save function, no new lives when you lost them, just game over). Today I wouldn't pick up a game that had either of those "features" because I play to be entertained - I did so back then as well, but requirements for being entertained has changed, and without the ability to set aside marathon sessions to maybe get somewhere, I need the save function, and I need the "not game over, use a continue" function in games like mario - otherwise I won't start, as I know I will feel like I've waste my time.

In regards to wow, I found the difficulty of normal t14 to bee a bit too harsh - mostly due to a number of coinciding events (the loss of key mnembers of our cata raid team mostly), I wasnt' expecting to be able to pick up and be heroic raiders, that was fine (well it would be nice to touch heroics a bit at least), but the checks were too tight in normal too - and when they relaxed them the damage was done and the split had started.

*thinks* In reality this part belongs in the heroic raiders/lfr/flex thread.

I think Blizzard needs to have a think about what Normal is supposed to be. Currently its mostly a stepping stone to delay heroic raiders, and flex seems to be aimed at what used to be the normal crowd, which leaves normal somewhere in between heroic and normal, wnd without a real niche of its own.


Well ideally, you could really have separate progression paths for regular players and the "elite" players. The problem is I don't know if you can go back to that now. Genie is out of the bottle so to speak. Back in the day, leveling was a real adventure, and people didn't all have the expectation to make level cap in 3 days and start raiding the next. Things along the way were a challenge, and interesting. But that ship has long sailed. Perhaps Titan can recapture that. Or EQ Next.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Lieris » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:51 pm

Nooska wrote:Heck back in teh day I though Mario 3 was awesome (no save function, no new lives when you lost them, just game over). Today I wouldn't pick up a game that had either of those "features" because I play to be entertained - I did so back then as well, but requirements for being entertained has changed, and without the ability to set aside marathon sessions to maybe get somewhere, I need the save function, and I need the "not game over, use a continue" function in games like mario - otherwise I won't start, as I know I will feel like I've waste my time.


That's why you play the SNES port of Mario 3 instead; it has a save function. ;) Also a game over even in the NES game just boots you to the beginning of the world, it doesn't end the game but I understand the point you're getting at.

I need difficulty otherwise I feel completely disconnected from a game and my mind wanders into auto-pilot mode. If something is so easy that even people who don't otherwise play games can complete it, then I am not interested in doing it more than once (and having to do it again but with an extra add/debuff and more damage isn't compelling enough). It just becomes disposable entertainment. Conversely nearly 20 years later I will still go back and play Contra Hard Corps.

Fundamentally I don't see why we can't have the difficulty and progression of Classic/TBC with QOL improvements like dual spec, guild bank, having more than one viable spec per class, Jeeves, no longer having to level up weapon skill, raid markers, AOE looting etc. The WoW equivalent of putting the save feature into Mario 3.
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