Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Teranoid » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:35 pm

The game is too far down the slope to go back to everything being more time consuming and ultimately actually resembling the textbook definition of an MMO.

We're now in the Xbox generation of "gimme gimme gimme or I quit".
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:07 pm

benebarba wrote:I actually wonder if those 3+ hour (wait+run) times to run dungeons is actually one of the things that helped prevent the burnout we now see... You simply couldn't pound through every dungeon til your eyes bled because there wasn't' enough time.


Fair point, but you also need to include the slower pace of content progression. You didn't feel like you needed to hit cap in 5 days and be raid geared in another 5. The game was slower not all that long ago.

But, you also can't put that genie back in the bottle either.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:13 pm

Lieris wrote:
halabar wrote:Sure... let's...

Eliminate casual content, and force socialization. No more random groups.

Make all dungeons take at least an hour to run, 3 is better.

Rehash old lore that new players don't care about.

Bound to be a winner. :roll:


Do you really have to be some dismissive? It's very tiresome.

Be constructive or keep it to yourself.


:D Warcraft 1 here, from the LAN party days.

And rose-colored glasses solve everything.. sure...

All you suggested was removing all the changes made to make the game more accessible to "modern" gamers. Don't think that will happen.

So, besides porchchairs and rocksalt, any real ideas that build on the current state of the game?

How about...

As I said for dailies, make it all weekly. Allow people to play to their own schedule.

Reward players for playing in known groups. (They are doing a bit of this with H Scenarios already, and are expanding with Flex).

What they need next is a way to build more socialization with non-raiders, perhaps something to do with the farms, or crafting, or events, or group questing.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Ruldar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:51 am

Casual players are the ones who pay the bills, and casual players are the ones benefiting from LFD/LFR. That particular change is never going anywhere.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby cdan » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:57 am

The idea of co-operative farming appeals to me, halabar. If you group with another 2-3 players you should be able to increase yield and growing time. Or something.

I have alt-itis so I have my own mini-co-operative going, but having a yield increase or similar for working with others would be a good idea in my book.

Co-operative professions would be an idea too. Not just sending stuff from one person to the next to have profession-based additions made to the original item, but grouped chars acting in unison to create something a little better. 3-ingots for a pair of BS-ers with one each and one to roll on. Or something.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:59 am

cdan wrote:The idea of co-operative farming appeals to me, halabar. If you group with another 2-3 players you should be able to increase yield and growing time. Or something.

I have alt-itis so I have my own mini-co-operative going, but having a yield increase or similar for working with others would be a good idea in my book.

Co-operative professions would be an idea too. Not just sending stuff from one person to the next to have profession-based additions made to the original item, but grouped chars acting in unison to create something a little better. 3-ingots for a pair of BS-ers with one each and one to roll on. Or something.


Yep, need something to increase socialization besides killing bosses.

And less things that require a daily log-in.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Sagara » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:02 am

Mmh, something like needing Belt Buckle for leatherworking belts? :-p

Actually, that *would* make sense for end-game crafting. The big problems with the "cross-profession" recipes was always you had almost no-one to provide the materials while leveling up if you were late to the party. But end-game crafting *will* be obsolete when the new xpack rolls around anyway... So why not?
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:08 am

Or a "guild" farm where the harvest happens once per week, but requires 5 people to tend it once during the week, but doesn't mandate specific days.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Sagara » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:10 am

I'd honestly like the farm to be weekly instead of daily, and maybe the same for some of the big profession cooldowns.
The concept of daily stuff always annoyed me to no end.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby halabar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:25 am

Sagara wrote:I'd honestly like the farm to be weekly instead of daily, and maybe the same for some of the big profession cooldowns.
The concept of daily stuff always annoyed me to no end.


Yep. Or have crops that take longer with higher yield.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:11 am

In regards to the farm, I wouldn't be a fan of making it weekly instead of daily (even if I don't log in every day) - mostly because it take slong enough to get through the tillers rep with it being daily (remember not having the double rep bonus). Also, weekly means less ability to plant what you need, it would become irellevant for a lot of people, either because it was too much "time investment" (returns being too far in the future) or too rigid.

I would be a fan of adding crops that took lnger to grow (in addition to daily crops) with a higher yield - especially for things like profession mats, so if you know you need a lot of cloth/ore/whatever, you plant the long term ones for a bit better yield, in exchange for locking out your farm plots used for it for a week.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:45 am

noodle cart will change everything.

;)
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby lythac » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:31 pm

I would like to see Raid Attunements come back. It can be as simple as one or two solo scenarios. Give players some lore who perhaps didn't quest or skipped past raid text to create some immersion for them.

I quite enjoyed the ones we had to do on the isle of thunder to unlock it.

I'm also in favour of pushing back raid release to one week after patch so for me it would fit. And open Heroic mode at the same time as normal.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:45 pm

lythac wrote:I would like to see Raid Attunements come back. It can be as simple as one or two solo scenarios. Give players some lore who perhaps didn't quest or skipped past raid text to create some immersion for them.

I quite enjoyed the ones we had to do on the isle of thunder to unlock it.

I'm also in favour of pushing back raid release to one week after patch so for me it would fit. And open Heroic mode at the same time as normal.


this seems completely reasonable to me... though did all players need to be attuned or was it only one? I get the TBC raid attunements and heroic dungeon keys mixed up.

though the folks who don't care about lore will probably never be made to care about it, so I'm not sure I'd be aiming it at them.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Flex » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:54 pm

If they change the farm system I'll kick a baby.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:57 pm

Flex wrote:If they change the farm system I'll kick a baby.


what if they allow us to have multiples of 5 plots, instead of 4 :P

I think the farm is fine, personally. I used it pretty heavily early on, but have relaxed on it a great deal.

If anything, perhaps allow the hangers-on on the farm to actually help you. Perhaps they can pick stuff for you if you leave it longer than X days.

I'd also like to see them continue to use it in the next expansion, or something like it... it seems like a fantastic idea I'd hate to see die with MOP.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Flex » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:05 pm

I actually level alts for the farm. My priest had 500+ bolts of cloth from me killing Zandalari rares so level to 90 and start planting Songbells.

The farm is my ideal player housing. Have materials from every released expansion available to be planted and made, basically an F U Khorium! bypass. Combine it with Achievement awards, like killing Garrosh will give you a thing to decorate the house, and BAM! Player housing with decorations. Inviting a player to your group lets them see your house.

Friends of the farm should negate one of the negative status effects. Like if you hate the vines you have to get to a 50 stack to clear a specific friend will tend your farm to negate that status effect so you never see it.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:55 am

Flex wrote:I actually level alts for the farm. My priest had 500+ bolts of cloth from me killing Zandalari rares so level to 90 and start planting Songbells.

The farm is my ideal player housing. Have materials from every released expansion available to be planted and made, basically an F U Khorium! bypass. Combine it with Achievement awards, like killing Garrosh will give you a thing to decorate the house, and BAM! Player housing with decorations. Inviting a player to your group lets them see your house.

Friends of the farm should negate one of the negative status effects. Like if you hate the vines you have to get to a 50 stack to clear a specific friend will tend your farm to negate that status effect so you never see it.



I'm pretty sure I wasn't alone in thinking that the friends on your farm would do something like that. That they just added a cosmetic presence was a bit of a let down. I'd loved to have been able to give them a job like 'clear the weeds', 'knock down those vines', 'chase the virmin away' or 'help out those runty crops', etc. Basically something that actually made a difference on your farm rather than them just taking up space.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:23 am

lythac wrote:I'm also in favour of pushing back raid release to one week after patch so for me it would fit. And open Heroic mode at the same time as normal.


Whats the difference, when heroic and normal share a lockout, and heroic requires killing the last boss on normal? (I think they mainly lock it out for a week to prevent "creative" ways around the requirements - was it server changing or faction changing that reset the lockout for someone?
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:04 am

Nooska wrote:
lythac wrote:I'm also in favour of pushing back raid release to one week after patch so for me it would fit. And open Heroic mode at the same time as normal.


Whats the difference, when heroic and normal share a lockout, and heroic requires killing the last boss on normal? (I think they mainly lock it out for a week to prevent "creative" ways around the requirements - was it server changing or faction changing that reset the lockout for someone?


I think implicit in there was eliminating the need to clear normal first, or at least that's what I'd do.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Worldie » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:09 am

Nooska wrote:Whats the difference, when heroic and normal share a lockout, and heroic requires killing the last boss on normal? (I think they mainly lock it out for a week to prevent "creative" ways around the requirements - was it server changing or faction changing that reset the lockout for someone?

Server transfer still resets all your lockouts if you change battlegroup.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:01 pm

^^ Aye, hence the lockout for 1 week, so the world first guilds don't have to jump through hoops and spend money on bein in the running (I'm assuming they like that).

If you ad access to heroic right off the bat, then Normal would probably have to be retuned a bit (as it is no longer the prerequisite for heroics, but just a level of difficulty for itself).
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Flex » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:05 pm

The normal clear is some sort of relic they're holding onto for reasons that are no longer really valid. It might've made sense with the 2 mode introduction in LK with different lockouts for 10s and 25s, previous tier 25s doing new tier heroic 10s for example, but now I don't see a need for it.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby Nooska » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:12 pm

I see one reason for requiring normal before heroic - it measn the raidgroups that can't go straight into heroics don't feel like they have to do it twoce (over the real heroic raiders doing it once).

However, differentiating the difficulties completely, also means normal is not a gearing up (actual gear as well as skill/practice) for heroics, and you could have a normal mode guild that did normal mode strict (in regards to world first race - I doubt anyone would feel it was credible if Method or paragon or one of those guilds went for the normal progresion first - also it would ruin the heroic schedule I'm assuming).
It would also allow for normal to be actual progression for a lot of people, whereas today its almost "well we gotta get through normal so we can start raiding for realzies" - if they felt heroic is the real place for them they could be told to go to a heroic guild.

That could leave Heroic for the hardcore, normal for the majority, and flex for the uneven/irregular sized freinds and family groups (and LFR for those that can't commit to a set raiding schedule).

It would also mean that heroics could be tuned fr having cleared previous tier heroic (and then be challenging), normals for having run previous tier normals, and be somewhat less challenging (than heroics relative to previous tier), flex to be another step down, and LFR to pretty much be what it is today.
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Re: Blizzard Loses 600k Subscribers in 2 Months

Postby benebarba » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:31 pm

Nooska wrote:I see one reason for requiring normal before heroic - it measn the raidgroups that can't go straight into heroics don't feel like they have to do it twoce (over the real heroic raiders doing it once).

However, differentiating the difficulties completely, also means normal is not a gearing up (actual gear as well as skill/practice) for heroics, and you could have a normal mode guild that did normal mode strict (in regards to world first race - I doubt anyone would feel it was credible if Method or paragon or one of those guilds went for the normal progresion first - also it would ruin the heroic schedule I'm assuming).
It would also allow for normal to be actual progression for a lot of people, whereas today its almost "well we gotta get through normal so we can start raiding for realzies" - if they felt heroic is the real place for them they could be told to go to a heroic guild.

That could leave Heroic for the hardcore, normal for the majority, and flex for the uneven/irregular sized freinds and family groups (and LFR for those that can't commit to a set raiding schedule).

It would also mean that heroics could be tuned fr having cleared previous tier heroic (and then be challenging), normals for having run previous tier normals, and be somewhat less challenging (than heroics relative to previous tier), flex to be another step down, and LFR to pretty much be what it is today.


Wait... current heroics *aren't* tuned for having cleared the previous tier's heroics?

I don't see any reasonable approach that would remove lower difficulties as a possible gearing route either. Sure, you may not be able to do both (normal + heroic, like now, for example)... but the option would still be there.

Even now, aren't mechanics getting different enough that the different difficulty fights can really be different fights? (i.e. other than the room and the boss and a few abilities being the same - what you need to do is completely different)
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