Remove Advertisements

LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:59 am

Ironshield wrote:
halabar wrote:Thels: You are misunderstanding my loot lockout idea. My proposal is that it be grouped as LFR/Flex/Normal and Normal/HC. The minute someone kills an heroic boss, they are locked out of LFR/Flex loot, and are locked out of HC if they run LFR/Flex.

It's a far more equitable solution than pushing LFR and Flex gear down in either ilvl or itemization or just availablilty.

Any other discussion on the ilvl, power, procs, bling, or other issues is just going to be a further rehash of the age-old argument of why do noobs get gear that's similar to mine.

The problem is that any system that makes you have to think, can I do this content if I MIGHT have a proper raid later this week is contrary to the goal of LFR / Flex existing - ie making raiding accessible to more people.

I raid once a week (my guild raids Thursday & Monday). On top of that my guild and a few other regulars do an organised LFR run every Wednesday where we blow through parts 3 & 4 as these aren't really that PuG friendly. That's 4 hours of 'raid' content a week. We will be changing our LFR run to a Flex run in 5.4. We've killed Jin'rokh on Heroic. Under your solution can I run LFR / Flex AT ALL? Or just no loot from Jin'rohk that week? (defeats the object since what I need from LFR is soulstones from the last 6 bosses). Or only after the Monday raid?

While I freely acknowledge that Darielle et al DO have a valid point that LFR / Flex PLUS Normal / Heroic is a LARGE time commitment that is likely to lead to people burning themselves out. And I expect that Blizzard would recognise the same problem and like to mitigate it. The ONLY solution that wouldn't immediately make LFR / Flex LESS fun for me and players like me is Theck's free loot option. But I wouldn't expect this to be likely to be implemented as at the end of the day it feels like free loot and it might feel unfair to those who CAN'T run normal / heroic mode, who LFR / Flex exists to please.


The more Darielle argues, the more I see that the HC argument that's being put forth is really not the time commitment, but that LFR shouldn't have that loot at all.

Considering the staggered pace that LFR will likely be rolled out at, I'm guessing 8 weeks to get all the wings opened up on LFR, if it's still an issue for HC raiders that they need to run LFR after 8 weeks, then I don't know what to say. Perhaps they should clear the content a few more times on normal if getting that loot is so vital to their progression? Is that really it, are the HC raiders saying they need LFR loot to progress? Interesting...
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Worldie » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:25 am

What hc raiders end up needing from LFR is usually that last tier piece, or some random OP trinket (cough UVLS)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13289
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Newsom » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:30 am

Worldie wrote:What hc raiders end up needing from LFR is usually that last tier piece, or some random OP trinket (cough UVLS)


Exactly. Honestly though, it's not that big of a deal.

That said, I think organized raiding (flex included) should have way greater rewards than LFR. Slighlty higher item levels is not enough in my opinion.
Newsom NewsSpoonFrangoNewsy
User avatar
Newsom
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:34 am
Location: Sweden

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby benebarba » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:42 am

Newsom wrote:That said, I think organized raiding (flex included) should have way greater rewards than LFR. Slighlty higher item levels is not enough in my opinion.


I'd be interested to hear what, and even more: why.

As it stands, IIRC, normal and heroic have not just higher ilvls on drops but also:
1) achievements
2) mounts (pets too maybe?)
3) different cosmetic details on gear
4) VP per boss, not just for completion of a wing.
5) enhanced gear (thunderforged, though that's new)
6) patterns (not sure if this is true currently - think not)
7) the fun of playing with your chosen group (perhaps not there for PUGs)

I mean, the game doesn't really have too many more things to toss in there.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:37 am

benebarba wrote:
Newsom wrote:That said, I think organized raiding (flex included) should have way greater rewards than LFR. Slighlty higher item levels is not enough in my opinion.


I'd be interested to hear what, and even more: why.

As it stands, IIRC, normal and heroic have not just higher ilvls on drops but also:
1) achievements
2) mounts (pets too maybe?)
3) different cosmetic details on gear
4) VP per boss, not just for completion of a wing.
5) enhanced gear (thunderforged, though that's new)
6) patterns (not sure if this is true currently - think not)
7) the fun of playing with your chosen group (perhaps not there for PUGs)

I mean, the game doesn't really have too many more things to toss in there.


2) currently the mounts are unique to normal/HC, but the pets drop in LFR.
4) give the HC kills more VP, whatever works
6) no one gets patterns anymore, it's all discovery.

3) This could use the most work, but take the most work. Would be really nice to see a lot more work on the gear models, but tmogging may be their excuse to spend less time on armor design.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:40 am

Worldie wrote:What hc raiders end up needing from LFR is usually that last tier piece, or some random OP trinket (cough UVLS)


But here we have 14 pages of arguing about that, and why it's so terrible that HC raiders MUST go back to LFR for those items. :roll:
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Flex » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:51 am

Do the crafting items obtained via disenchanting raid drops come from LFR as well?
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7499
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Worldie » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:53 am

No, only from normal/hc drops (not even rep gear)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13289
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby benebarba » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:56 am

Flex wrote:Do the crafting items obtained via disenchanting raid drops come from LFR as well?


I suppose if you DE your drop, and there is some chance of them in the bag... but I imagine that's far less than the chance you'd get one during a guild run because of the differences in loot rules and not needing to be an enchanter. I don't believe they drop for open roll.

the random greens, of course, can be rolled for DE if you have an enchanter in the group.

edit: I stand corrected on the DE'ing of LFR purps. Thanks Worldie :D
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby benebarba » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:00 pm

halabar wrote:3) This could use the most work, but take the most work. Would be really nice to see a lot more work on the gear models, but tmogging may be their excuse to spend less time on armor design.


I do wonder how Tmog will affect future armor design. I mean, it's great and all for the artists to go hog wild... but as many a hunter can attest, that doesn't mean anyone except them actually likes what it looks like :P

<-- wonders if he's the only one who thinks all the new mog helms in the store are hideous.

But yeah, do think that just re-coloring is not really 'enough' to differentiate the gearsets. Maybe with the new glowy-shoulders they can introduce something special there for the modes.
Last edited by benebarba on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Worldie » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:01 pm

Not the only one bb :p
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13289
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby Flex » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:03 pm

benebarba wrote:I imagine that's far less than the chance you'd get one during a guild run because of the differences in loot rules


Our loot "rules"
1) If you need it need it but don't be a dick.
2) Designated enchanter will greed everything to disenchant at the end of the night.
3) If you want it but don't need it and lose a greed rule just let the enchanter know.
4) If the above fails you it is your own fault.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 7499
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby benebarba » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:04 pm

Flex wrote:
benebarba wrote:I imagine that's far less than the chance you'd get one during a guild run because of the differences in loot rules


Our loot "rules"
1) If you need it need it but don't be a dick.
2) Designated enchanter will greed everything to disenchant at the end of the night.
3) If you want it but don't need it and lose a greed rule just let the enchanter know.
4) If the above fails you it is your own fault.


Pretty much my favorite loot system for organized runs.
benebarba
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:30 am

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:06 pm

Blood Spirits can drop in LFR failbags, but that was only added with IoT, so a tier behind.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: LFR/Flex and heroic raiders

Postby halabar » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:08 pm

benebarba wrote:
halabar wrote:3) This could use the most work, but take the most work. Would be really nice to see a lot more work on the gear models, but tmogging may be their excuse to spend less time on armor design.


I do wonder how Tmog will affect future armor design. I mean, it's great and all for the artists to go hog wild... but as many a hunter can attest, that doesn't mean anyone except them actually likes what it looks like :P

<-- wonders if he's the only one who thinks all the new mog helms in the store are hideous.

But yeah, do think that just re-coloring is not really 'enough' to differentiate the gearsets. Maybe with the new glowy-shoulders they can introduce something special there for the modes.


I think the designers have spend less time, and gone a lot less wild with the designs.

The hunter sets.. /facepalm. The coming one finally isn't a "look what I skinned today" set, but it's still goofy.

Offtopic: I do love the new mage set on a dwarf with a beard. Totally the stoned hippie look. Only works with bearded toons though.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest