Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:43 pm

which one?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:45 pm

napkin math says OOM time is approx 30-40 seconds without SoI, not factoring in spell priorities or haste or non-core abilities....

Crusader Strike costs 15% base mana every 4.5 seconds --> 3.3% base mana cost per second
Judgement costs 5% base mana every 6.75 seconds --> 0.74% base mana cost per second
AS costs 8% base mana every 15 seconds --> 1.85% base mana per second
holy wrath 5% base mana every 9 seconds --> 0.56% base mana per second

sum: 6.47% base mana spent per second
GbtL regens 3% base mana per second

--> after 30 seconds you are bone dry without SoI mana regen.

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I dunno.

I just want to know why they are changing it. Maybe they forgot to label the change as "holy SoI only". Maybe they'll buff something else, like GbtL. But going by past experience, it'll be too little, too late. I don't know if I can trust that GC and his team even know what they are doing any more. Giving us only half the mana regeneration required to only use CS, J, AS and HW, and even then we'll be OOM within half a minute at ZERO haste. That isn't factoring in Consecrate, Sacred Shield, throwing out the odd interrupt, re-buffing Kings because somebody went and died. Without that passive mana regen Prot is going to be literally unplayable. I'm not exaggerating either. We quite simply will not have enough mana to use our basic rotation even without anything else.


I can live with Battle Healer going the way of the dodo (they might as well delete it if it stays as-is). But they leave Bloodworm healing in the game. They leave BM party shields in the game. Why aren't they being removed? Is it because nobody is complaining about them because they don't show up in Recount? Blood Worms can heal for way more than Battle Healer ever could too.

I don't know if I want to play a tank that has no resources to play with, and is forced to go back to dodge/parry gearing just to not go OOM within seconds. It is too late to re-roll because of that damn legendary quest-chain and I only really want to play paladin tank anyway. Maybe I'll just stop playing, then I don't have to deal with this shit any more. They had better have a damn good reason for this change.

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:50 pm

Someone had already posted the napkin math, but I posted the rest.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 519?page=2
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:58 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Someone had already posted the napkin math, but I posted the rest.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 519?page=2

Thanks
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Havent had the chance to get on the PTR.

Are we sure that Crusader Strike costs 15%? Some people report its 3%, but I cannot find any documentation.
NVM. It is 3%. We still run out of mana, 'cept it takes us about 3 and a half minutes rather than 45 secs.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Newsom » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:42 pm

Remember we haven't seen the PTR build yet, they may have reduced the mana cost of some of our spells but just didn't put it in the patch notes.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:08 pm

*groans* Blizz is tinkering again?

The only real trouble is the SoI mana return. But I'm hopeful Judgment's mana return would be buffed if something goes wrong. The BH Glyph finally goes from Mandatory to situational for AoE-heavy fights. GC should have been predictable, really, and I'm fairly certain it's not going to do much besides make us absolute MONSTERS on trash and add fights - I can hear Lou Bega singing how he's got a proc right here, he's got a proc right there...

I don't think we're going to gear out of haste this time around either...
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Petrus » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:16 am

This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to go ret sometimes. Battle healer I can deal with, but the Grand Crusader change AND no SoI mana just makes it frustrating.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:20 am

TBH...I can deal with the BH change as well, and the GC change...a bit frustrating with what blizzard says and what they actually do (ok...really f'ing frustrating), but the SoI change is just dumb. If they want us to care about resource regen to the point of being a DK, just 1/2 the mana return or something. They're effectively taking out active mitigation for us by that change.




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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:22 am

I don't doubt that they'll compensate Prot if they are actually going oom. It's only a question of how soon they respond.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Thels » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:27 am

The Battle Healer change... Battle Healer was nice while we had it. I can understand them taking it away from us, though. Far from worldshattering, even though Bloods and Brews still seem to have their raidheals.

The GC change... Meh. It's a slight drop in HoPo generation, but it wasn't like the GC procs from CS/HotR were our major source of HoPo income, and it had some overlap with GC procs from avoidance. This will help out the tank that hasn't read up, and geared Dodge/Parry.

The SoI change... I haven't done the maths myself, but I can't see them going live with us going oom in 30 seconds. I don't want to have to beg my druids for innervates again, a la vanilla/TBC.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:35 am

In other news, I like the new Shaman talent. It sounds useful and adds some interesting choice into what you take based on the content you're facing.

Since 5.0 I've been using Ancestral Guidance, which can do some nice burst healing across the raid once every 2 minutes.
Rushing Streams, the new talent, makes Healing Stream do 4x as much healing (double healing to 2 people per tick), which makes it great for fights with frequent AoE and also happens to buff the Glyph of Healing Stream Totem's elemental damage reduction by applying it to more players at once.

If I was still raiding I could see myself frequently switching between these two talents. I was already dropping healing stream totem a lot on certain fights (first phase of Iron Qon, for example).
Last edited by KysenMurrin on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Sagara » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:37 am

Actually, the GC change is going to be very fun on Nazgrim. If you have never pulled the two minibosses before Iron Qon thogether, you need to try it just once.

Cons - CS - J - *Proc* - *Proc* - CS - *Proc* - *Proc* - *Proc* - *Proc* - CS - *Proc* - J - *Proc* - CS - *Proc* - *Proc* - *Proc*...
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Nooska » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:03 am

Maybe I'm reading the BH change differently than the rest of you,but I read it as going from "dumb heal" to "smart heal" (and no healing the paladin - but did we really use it primarily for healing ourself before?) (Okay, seeing as Mooska is still 85, I'll redact the "we" to "you")

Edit:
New text for BH (as per MMO-C patch note quotation):
"The glyph now causes Seal of Insight to heal the most wounded raid or party member instead of the Paladin."

Current text for BH:
"Using melee attacks while using Seal of Insight heals a nearby injured friendly target, excluding the Paladin, within 30 yards for 20% of damage dealt."

So already excluded the paladin using it - so it just went from dumb heal to smart heal - thats a buff people.

Edit2:

Never mind - missed th "causes SoI heals..."
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Sagara » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:07 am

You misread Noos' - it used to heal both the tank and its new target. Re-read the current text: nowhere does it state the tank doesn't get healed, only that he's excluded from the BH proc.
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