Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenris » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:06 pm

Very disappointed with the Tiger cloak effect. The others all clearly visually reference the associated Celestial, that's just some ugly lump of spikes.

If you look really hard at it,there is a cat face on the tiger one,guess that's the best they came out with :D
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Darielle » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:35 pm

The Legendary boat kinda sailed with the concept of "Something for everybody" tbh. There really wasn't a good way to implement that kind of Legendary - what they have now is probably the best implementation, as opposed to throwing a raid grind on top of a "Who out of EVERYONE gets the most use? Tank Shield? Healer weapon? Mages?".

The problem is that what they have now is pretty terrible. Sure, the concept of an expansion long quest chain is nice. The reality is that for most of the expansion, it's been solely RNG on Sigils/Secrets/Runestones. Because of the genericness and the "EVERYONE GETS A LEGENDARY", they abandoned a lot of the personal trials aspect that even, say, Fang had. And really, when you think about it, having something like 34 unique quest chains would have been pretty excessive on design, so that can't even really be faulted too much.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:56 pm

well, the Celestial challenge thingie was a good concept. As was the Thunder forge. Nalakk was nice as well to solo :-p

There are some realy good ideas. Others... Less so.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Thels » Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:16 pm

I really don't mind the valor step, as you know you're done with it in X amount of weeks.

Whereas for the other ones, you really have to hope they drop, and if they don't, you get screwed over by RNG.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Teranoid » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:05 pm

I don't see what the big deal about doing a whopping 2 whole battlegrounds is. This entire expansion is about the re-igniting war between the Horde and the Alliance. It's like the people that complained about all the pvp achieves for the holidays who wanted their hideous proto drake. It may be hard to believe but there is more to this game than slaying dragons.

Also feel free to save the "but the other side always wins" excuses and be glad it wasn't 10 wins each like it was on PTR.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Paxen » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:25 pm

My only problem (speaking as a LFR-only casual) is that I switched servers and mains for patch 5.1 and then back again for 5.2, on top of sigils being slooooow to drop in LFR in 5.0. The end effect is that I'm mostly getting the quest done in catch-up mode, which is okay, tbh. But I finally did catch up a month or so before 5.3 dropped. I was really looking forward to get the 5.2 step done to be ready to do 5.3 along with everybody else, but...

What had I been doing in WoW in addition to grinding out the legendary quest? Running ToT LFR and Isle of Thunder dailies. I was getting a bit sick of it, tbh. And what's the next step for me now? Running ToT and Isle of Thunder dailies...

That's the real sucky part of getting behind on the quest. It's a lot more onerous to grind it out when that's ALL you're doing, rather than doing it while experiencing new content. I'm seriously considering putting of Orgrimmar LFR until I've done the 5.2 and 5.3 parts, but that's its own kind of suck.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Teranoid » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:31 pm

Yeah I could not imagine trying to start this all now. The frustration with the bullshit RNG on runestones was enough to make me just look at all my alts and go "Hahaha.. NOPE!"
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby benebarba » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:03 pm

Teranoid wrote:I don't see what the big deal about doing a whopping 2 whole battlegrounds is. This entire expansion is about the re-igniting war between the Horde and the Alliance. It's like the people that complained about all the pvp achieves for the holidays who wanted their hideous proto drake. It may be hard to believe but there is more to this game than slaying dragons.

Also feel free to save the "but the other side always wins" excuses and be glad it wasn't 10 wins each like it was on PTR.


Just because something sucks less than it could have doesn't mean it doesn't still suck... Personally, I ended up enjoying it but not enough to do PVP, which is an aspect of the game I don't like. I suspect that's part of the issue: not that it encouraged you to try PVP a bit, but rather that it made you do so until you won regardless of if you actually enjoyed what you were doing. I imagine for folks who didn't do it early on, or didn't have people to carry them, or didn't actually like PVP - the experience probably varied as much as LFR/LFD groups does. And at least in those you may run across someone who will say more than L2P, noob.

seriously: if they made me heal on my paladin because it's one of those things in the game I could do, I'd complain about that as well.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Newsom » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:46 pm

Updated PTR patch notes:
Blizzard wrote:Seal of Insight no longer has a chance to restore mana on attacks.

Glyph of Battle Healer has been redesigned. The glyph now causes Seal of Insight to heal the most wounded raid or party member instead of the Paladin.

Grand Crusader no longer has a chance to activate from Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous, but now has a 30% chance to activate when dodging or parrying a melee attack (up from 12%).


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Looks like they're trying to force avoidance on us again.

And won't this SoI change mean we'll start having some mana problems? I know I go OOM after a while when using the other seals - at least I did on Council progression when interrupting. :/
Last edited by Newsom on Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:52 pm

napkin math says OOM time is approx 30-40 seconds without SoI, not factoring in spell priorities....

Crusader Strike costs 15% base mana every 4.5 seconds --> 3.3% base mana cost per second
Judgement costs 5% base mana every 6.75 seconds --> 0.74% base mana cost per second
AS costs 8% base mana every 15 seconds --> 1.85% base mana per second
holy wrath 5% base mana every 9 seconds --> 0.56% base mana per second

sum: 6.47% base mana spent per second
GbtL regens 3% base mana per second

--> after 30 seconds you are bone dry without SoI mana regen.
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bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Newsom » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:59 pm

And even worse with haste...

I imagine they'll have to either buff Guarded by the Light or lower the mana cost of our spells.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:06 pm

Newsom wrote:Updated PTR patch notes:
Blizzard wrote:Seal of Insight no longer has a chance to restore mana on attacks.

Glyph of Battle Healer has been redesigned. The glyph now causes Seal of Insight to heal the most wounded raid or party member instead of the Paladin.

Grand Crusader no longer has a chance to activate from Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous, but now has a 30% chance to activate when dodging or parrying a melee attack (up from 12%).


Looks like they're trying to force avoidance on us again. :P
And won't this SoI change mean we'll start having some mana problems? I know I go OOM after a while when using the other seals - at least I did on Council progression when interrupting. :/


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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:08 pm

Everybody! TO THE TWITTER!
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:34 pm

Fetzie wrote:Everybody! TO THE TWITTER!


I've fired mah lazor, I mean, my twitter and a post on the ptr forums. Not that its gonna get any traction...
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:44 pm

Klaudandus wrote:
Fetzie wrote:Everybody! TO THE TWITTER!


I've fired mah lazor, I mean, my twitter and a post on the ptr forums. Not that its gonna get any traction...

I sent a couple of tweets to GC, and replied to the "for all who say blizzard doesn't listen blabla some hunter stuff bla" tweet by rygarius "prot paladins need that SoI mana regen #BlizzardListens!"

can't post on US PTR forum and they never read the EU forum anyway.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:59 pm

Silver Lining about Battle Healer is that we free up one of our glyph slots. I don't think I've ever removed Battle Healer since launch.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:05 pm

Should we start dumping our haste and start going for Mastery? I swear this feels like retaliation for Theck always proving them wrong.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:32 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Should we start dumping our haste and start going for Mastery? I swear this feels like retaliation for Theck always proving them wrong.

I dunno.

I just want to know why they are changing it. Maybe they forgot to label the change as "holy SoI only". Maybe they'll buff something else, like GbtL. But going by past experience, it'll be too little, too late. I don't know if I can trust that GC and his team even know what they are doing any more. Giving us only half the mana regeneration required to only use CS, J, AS and HW, and even then we'll be OOM within half a minute at ZERO haste. That isn't factoring in Consecrate, Sacred Shield, throwing out the odd interrupt, re-buffing Kings because somebody went and died. Without that passive mana regen Prot is going to be literally unplayable. I'm not exaggerating either. We quite simply will not have enough mana to use our basic rotation even without anything else.


I can live with Battle Healer going the way of the dodo (they might as well delete it if it stays as-is). But they leave Bloodworm healing in the game. They leave BM party shields in the game. Why aren't they being removed? Is it because nobody is complaining about them because they don't show up in Recount? Blood Worms can heal for way more than Battle Healer ever could too.

I don't know if I want to play a tank that has no resources to play with, and is forced to go back to dodge/parry gearing just to not go OOM within seconds. It is too late to re-roll because of that damn legendary quest-chain and I only really want to play paladin tank anyway. Maybe I'll just stop playing, then I don't have to deal with this shit any more. They had better have a damn good reason for this change.
Last edited by Fetzie on Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:37 pm

Also, our dps is gonna take a huge hit. We are gonna need a huge buff somewhere. I mean, riposte means 5% extra crit for warriors and dks, which helps warriors a lot with their enrage, not to mention it buffs their shield block and crit block chance.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:38 pm

Yeah, the only thing propping up our dps is the haste. Without the haste we are middle-bottom of the pack. And getting nerfed.

Also, can you repost that one by me in the PTR thread, I can't post there due to not having an active WoW-US sub.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:43 pm

which one?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:45 pm

napkin math says OOM time is approx 30-40 seconds without SoI, not factoring in spell priorities or haste or non-core abilities....

Crusader Strike costs 15% base mana every 4.5 seconds --> 3.3% base mana cost per second
Judgement costs 5% base mana every 6.75 seconds --> 0.74% base mana cost per second
AS costs 8% base mana every 15 seconds --> 1.85% base mana per second
holy wrath 5% base mana every 9 seconds --> 0.56% base mana per second

sum: 6.47% base mana spent per second
GbtL regens 3% base mana per second

--> after 30 seconds you are bone dry without SoI mana regen.

----




I dunno.

I just want to know why they are changing it. Maybe they forgot to label the change as "holy SoI only". Maybe they'll buff something else, like GbtL. But going by past experience, it'll be too little, too late. I don't know if I can trust that GC and his team even know what they are doing any more. Giving us only half the mana regeneration required to only use CS, J, AS and HW, and even then we'll be OOM within half a minute at ZERO haste. That isn't factoring in Consecrate, Sacred Shield, throwing out the odd interrupt, re-buffing Kings because somebody went and died. Without that passive mana regen Prot is going to be literally unplayable. I'm not exaggerating either. We quite simply will not have enough mana to use our basic rotation even without anything else.


I can live with Battle Healer going the way of the dodo (they might as well delete it if it stays as-is). But they leave Bloodworm healing in the game. They leave BM party shields in the game. Why aren't they being removed? Is it because nobody is complaining about them because they don't show up in Recount? Blood Worms can heal for way more than Battle Healer ever could too.

I don't know if I want to play a tank that has no resources to play with, and is forced to go back to dodge/parry gearing just to not go OOM within seconds. It is too late to re-roll because of that damn legendary quest-chain and I only really want to play paladin tank anyway. Maybe I'll just stop playing, then I don't have to deal with this shit any more. They had better have a damn good reason for this change.

----

Those two, if you would be so kind.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:50 pm

Someone had already posted the napkin math, but I posted the rest.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 519?page=2
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:58 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Someone had already posted the napkin math, but I posted the rest.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 519?page=2

Thanks
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bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:09 pm

Havent had the chance to get on the PTR.

Are we sure that Crusader Strike costs 15%? Some people report its 3%, but I cannot find any documentation.
NVM. It is 3%. We still run out of mana, 'cept it takes us about 3 and a half minutes rather than 45 secs.
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