Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:20 pm

I think I like the blue T16 best.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:32 am

Fenrìr wrote:bastards, let's just make monks more op.


They get it on their Dodge/Crit/Mastery cloak, so they at least sit out of Haste, but they'll probably reforge Dodge back to Haste, so it's only half a poor stat, while we end up with one and a half a poor stat after reforging.

Are we able to have both cloaks? If so, I would probably use the tanking one on learning new fights, and once we're getting the hang of the fight, switch to the DPS one.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:42 am

Differently from the epic ones, they aren't unique, so I'd assume you will be able to hold two
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Nooska » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:03 am

halabar wrote:Slippery Slope?...

New item on the PTR suggests that Blizz might sell XP boosts via the Blizzard store. 100% XP boost, duration unknown...

Also new pally tier. Damn, you guys have wings on your heads!


Naah, its just an RAF in a bottle instead of having to find someone to do an RAF with.

Also, it doesn't affect end game in any way, just lets you get there faster.
(And with Zahym's confirmation that they are working on "purchasing items in game" in ceratin regions, that makes me suspect we won't see it and its for the asian market.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenris » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:08 am

Newsom wrote:Would have looked soooo good without the chicken wings on the helm.

Yeah

But still,it's not that bad,it's the first helm i think i'd show out of this entire exp.

P.s:and as usual,"when in doubt,make a new version of judgment" applies here it seems :lol:
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Teranoid » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:58 am

Nooska wrote:
halabar wrote:Slippery Slope?...

New item on the PTR suggests that Blizz might sell XP boosts via the Blizzard store. 100% XP boost, duration unknown...

Also new pally tier. Damn, you guys have wings on your heads!


Naah, its just an RAF in a bottle instead of having to find someone to do an RAF with.

Also, it doesn't affect end game in any way, just lets you get there faster.
(And with Zahym's confirmation that they are working on "purchasing items in game" in ceratin regions, that makes me suspect we won't see it and its for the asian market.


If it's for stuff like faster leveling I have absolutely no issue with it. I highly doubt Blizzard is stupid enough to let you purchase gear or whatnot.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Meloree » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:54 pm

Fetzie wrote:However, when you are in almost no danger of dying except when it is already a de facto wipe, do you really need that additional safety net? If the DPS cloak effect procs Seal of Insight, that is 6 SoI procs in 3 seconds, or 300k healing. Depending on how often it procs (and don't forget that RPPM effects all scale with your haste) that additional burst of healing could be more useful than the cheat death proc.


Hi guys. Been a while. Miss me?

Assertion: The proc on the tank cloak is hilariously overpowered. So overpowered, in fact, that I contend that it's worth more DPS than the DPS cloak's stats and procs, even with the subpar itemization, in addition to being worth more survival than, roughly, anything that's ever been in the game before, barring 3.2 era Ardent Defender.

How is it worth DPS, you might ask? I contend that it is so hilariously good for raw survival that you could happily start reforging your stats into crit and come out ahead on survival AND dps over any other option.

Proof of assertion is left as an exercise for the reader. Because that is WAY easier on me.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:59 pm

The people who don't see how hilariously op the tank cloak is, probably didn't play in WotLK.

In Wotlk, when every single non pala tank on the game cried about the opness of ardent defender, everyone envyed how paladin tanks could safely ignore using tanking cooldowns, cause even if they did something wrong, AD would proc and they would continue playing like if nothing happened.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:15 pm

Sagara wrote:Theck is nothing but the tool people use to prove they are NOT wrong.

Wait, did you just call me a tool?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Meloree » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:21 pm

theckhd wrote:
Sagara wrote:Theck is nothing but the tool people use to prove they are NOT wrong.

Wait, did you just call me a tool?

To be fair, Dr. T, I'm pretty sure it was a compliment.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:29 pm

Worldie wrote:The people who don't see how hilariously op the tank cloak is, probably didn't play in WotLK.

In Wotlk, when every single non pala tank on the game cried about the opness of ardent defender, everyone envyed how paladin tanks could safely ignore using tanking cooldowns, cause even if they did something wrong, AD would proc and they would continue playing like if nothing happened.

In WotLK we had bosses like Vezax that would take 30k off your health pool with one swing, and you had 35k life. Or the first of the Northrend beasts that would stack a massive bleed DoT on you, special attack you for 60% of your life and follow it up with a 40% swing. Healers had to spam their biggest and fastest heal because you could, literally, die within the next 1.5 seconds. Lich King 25H did 55-60k swings on a 60-70k health-pool. Remember how we chained cooldowns for heroic Festergut's third inhale phase just to survive?

You don't get those "100-10% in one swing" fights any more. I mean, yeah we have Horridon 25H, but then we have a 45% reduction for every single Triple Puncture and a decent proportion of the swings. In WotLK we didn't have that. In WotLK we would have been told by the game to take those hits to the face and stack stamina and armor because block was worthless and avoidance wasn't reliable enough because two hits behind each other would kill you with 40% overkill. That isn't how bosses work nowadays, and I would contend that the legendary cloak isn't as over-powered as auto-AD was because of this.
Last edited by Fetzie on Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:31 pm

Fetzie wrote:
Worldie wrote:The people who don't see how hilariously op the tank cloak is, probably didn't play in WotLK.

In Wotlk, when every single non pala tank on the game cried about the opness of ardent defender, everyone envyed how paladin tanks could safely ignore using tanking cooldowns, cause even if they did something wrong, AD would proc and they would continue playing like if nothing happened.

In WotLK we had bosses like Vezax that would take 30k off your health pool with one swing, and you had 35k life. Or the first of the Northrend beasts that would stack a massive bleed DoT on you, special attack you for 60% of your life and follow it up with a 40% swing. Healers had to spam their biggest and fastest heal because you could, literally, die within the next 1.5 seconds. Lich King 25H did 55-60k swings on a 60-70k health-pool. Remember how we chained cooldowns for heroic Festergut's third inhale phase just to survive?

You don't get those "100-10% in one swing" fights any more. I mean, yeah we have Horridon 25H, but then we have a 45% reduction for every single Triple Puncture. In WotLK we didn't have that. In WotLK we would have been told by the game to take those hits to the face and stack stamina and armor because block was worthless and avoidance wasn't reliable enough because two hits behind each other would kill you with 40% overkill. That isn't how bosses work nowadays, and I would contend that the legendary cloak isn't as over-powered as auto-AD was because of this.

There's several abilities (including triple puncture) in MoP that are "cooldown or die". What if you needed to use that cooldown before though cause someone messed up, and healers had to heal someone else, leaving you down a bit too long.
In a perfect world, this never happens. But heroic progression is nowhere close to the "perfect world".
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:33 pm

We can cover all of them (or damn near all of them) with ShoR though. We have a "shield wall-esque" cooldown for every Triple Puncture, every massive bite, every talon rake. Would those Impales from Gormok have been half as dangerous if we had had Shield of the Righteous? We could cover the entirety of the third Inhale at Festergut with Guardian of Ancient Kings and Sanctified Wrath/Holy Avenger.
Last edited by Fetzie on Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Darielle » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:34 pm

Wait, did you just call me a tool?


Isn't it awkward when people on the internet start speculating about your tool?

The people who don't see how hilariously op the tank cloak is, probably didn't play in WotLK.

In Wotlk, when every single non pala tank on the game cried about the opness of ardent defender, everyone envyed how paladin tanks could safely ignore using tanking cooldowns, cause even if they did something wrong, AD would proc and they would continue playing like if nothing happened.
....
There's several abilities (including triple puncture) in MoP that are "cooldown or die". What if you needed to use that cooldown before though cause someone messed up, and healers had to heal someone else, leaving you down a bit too long.
In a perfect world, this never happens. But heroic progression is nowhere close to the "perfect world".


What tanking cooldowns? This was WotLK. AD came in response to us needing a second cooldown that wasn't glyphed Salv.

And unlike WotLK out response to cooldown or die mechanics is no longer limited to "Shield Wall and Pray". The response to most mechanics is "keep using ShoR". This is slightly less true for other tanks - for example, as Druids depending on the mechanic we do have to rely on cd's being rotated but even there except for Snapping Bite (which really comes down to manage shield), we have passive Armour making it easier to handle anyway, and SD/FR/T&C is a cherry to smooth it out.

Comparing WotLK to now just doesn't really work.
Last edited by Darielle on Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Meloree » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:42 pm

Fetzie wrote:That isn't how bosses work nowadays, and I would contend that the legendary cloak isn't as over-powered as auto-AD was because of this.


Naa, it's actually even more powerful. It's on half the cooldown, it doesn't leave you at 15% health after the killing blow, and tanks are now capable of leveraging excess durability into additional DPS in ways that weren't available in Wrath.

Let me put it this way: If you are good, you can make use of the additional cooldown in your arsenal, become harder to kill, and leverage that additional survivability into moar pewpew, whether it be through more personal DPS, or through replacing a healer with another DPS. If you are bad, you get one free raid-wiping fuckup every minute.

The tank cloak should be the bar-none choice for tanks in absolutely every situation that is not "throwing all caution to the wind and accepting the risk of wipes in order to set world number 1 parses", which is a cause I can totally get behind.
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