Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:15 pm

oh.. nvm, you can buy the tanking cloak for 7K gold...
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby melisandyr » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:18 pm

I like the options around the cloak. I think it's a very valid point that the healing model at the moment means that a lot of Guilds won't have experienced tank deaths on a too regular basis. And the juicy haste stat on the Tiger cloak makes it very tempting.

However, I do love the Ox cloak for its tanky proc. It is absolutely an insurance policy, but as a tank I like to bring as much insurance and surety as possible when I join a raid. I like the fact it's a safety net, and will stop me dropping dead when things go wrong. Perhaps this xpac we've been focussed on doing damage too much, but I see it as a sideline to my main purpose in the raid - to stay alive.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Darielle » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:23 pm

Big problem there is, doesnt matter how fun something is, people at normal+ raiding will not do what's fun but what's more efficient.
Doesn't matter if dodging gives you 2000% speed and makes your character dance a rock song if guaranteed mitigation through haste is better for survival and raid dps.


Whether people will do what's more efficient doesn't matter, as long as everything is fun, whatever is more efficient will also be fun.

Haste is fun. If the worst thing we can say about stats is that we have to choose between the fun that is Haste and the fun that is Avoidance, we'd be in a pretty amazing spot.

On a side note regarding cloaks:
The door is open now for lots of mechanics cheesing by damage dealers using the tank cloak proc. Can you imagine if you could give the entire raid the tank cloak during Will progression, or on Lei Shen-H?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:38 pm

My thoughts too Dari, another reason for which I don't see that cloak making it to live.
Or alternatively, having it capped to a % of the player's HP so you can't use it to leapfrog stuff you shouldn't leapfrog.


Second thing, I wonder if you can upgrade the legendary cloak. /sad of losing 8 ilvls :P
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Flex » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:42 pm

Darielle wrote:On a side note regarding cloaks:
The door is open now for lots of mechanics cheesing by damage dealers using the tank cloak proc. Can you imagine if you could give the entire raid the tank cloak during Will progression, or on Lei Shen-H?


Don't they have lots of behind the scenes things where they can make it so it only works for tank specs?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Darielle » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:34 pm

Don't they have lots of behind the scenes things where they can make it so it only works for tank specs?


They could, but I don't see them being able to justify it without changing the acquisition process, especially if the proc is tied to using the "wrong" cloak with the wrong stats and giving up the other proc anyway.

Even more so, I don't think I'd want them doing that kind of thing on the Legendary because it opens the door to disqualifying the use of the Xuen proc for tanking specs.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:52 pm

melisandyr wrote:I like the options around the cloak. I think it's a very valid point that the healing model at the moment means that a lot of Guilds won't have experienced tank deaths on a too regular basis. And the juicy haste stat on the Tiger cloak makes it very tempting.

However, I do love the Ox cloak for its tanky proc. It is absolutely an insurance policy, but as a tank I like to bring as much insurance and surety as possible when I join a raid. I like the fact it's a safety net, and will stop me dropping dead when things go wrong. Perhaps this xpac we've been focussed on doing damage too much, but I see it as a sideline to my main purpose in the raid - to stay alive.


However, when you are in almost no danger of dying except when it is already a de facto wipe, do you really need that additional safety net? If the DPS cloak effect procs Seal of Insight, that is 6 SoI procs in 3 seconds, or 300k healing. Depending on how often it procs (and don't forget that RPPM effects all scale with your haste) that additional burst of healing could be more useful than the cheat death proc.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:57 pm

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby benebarba » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:26 pm

ok, that does look pretty wild. Like we stole a druid's shoulders, but wild.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:16 pm

I'm still pissed they gave fucking priests Tyrael wings instead of us.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:20 pm

i dont like the helm but the rest of the set looks solid, definitively the best one this expac
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Newsom » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:36 pm

Would have looked soooo good without the chicken wings on the helm.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:39 pm

Oh look, we have wings on our head, that's new...

oh wait.



On the note of the cloaks, are the agi tanks getting the cheat death proc?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:51 pm

Fenrìr wrote:Oh look, we have wings on our head, that's new...

oh wait.



On the note of the cloaks, are the agi tanks getting the cheat death proc?


Yes
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenrìr » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:55 pm

bastards, let's just make monks more op.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:20 pm

I think I like the blue T16 best.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:32 am

Fenrìr wrote:bastards, let's just make monks more op.


They get it on their Dodge/Crit/Mastery cloak, so they at least sit out of Haste, but they'll probably reforge Dodge back to Haste, so it's only half a poor stat, while we end up with one and a half a poor stat after reforging.

Are we able to have both cloaks? If so, I would probably use the tanking one on learning new fights, and once we're getting the hang of the fight, switch to the DPS one.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:42 am

Differently from the epic ones, they aren't unique, so I'd assume you will be able to hold two
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Nooska » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:03 am

halabar wrote:Slippery Slope?...

New item on the PTR suggests that Blizz might sell XP boosts via the Blizzard store. 100% XP boost, duration unknown...

Also new pally tier. Damn, you guys have wings on your heads!


Naah, its just an RAF in a bottle instead of having to find someone to do an RAF with.

Also, it doesn't affect end game in any way, just lets you get there faster.
(And with Zahym's confirmation that they are working on "purchasing items in game" in ceratin regions, that makes me suspect we won't see it and its for the asian market.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Fenris » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:08 am

Newsom wrote:Would have looked soooo good without the chicken wings on the helm.

Yeah

But still,it's not that bad,it's the first helm i think i'd show out of this entire exp.

P.s:and as usual,"when in doubt,make a new version of judgment" applies here it seems :lol:
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Teranoid » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:58 am

Nooska wrote:
halabar wrote:Slippery Slope?...

New item on the PTR suggests that Blizz might sell XP boosts via the Blizzard store. 100% XP boost, duration unknown...

Also new pally tier. Damn, you guys have wings on your heads!


Naah, its just an RAF in a bottle instead of having to find someone to do an RAF with.

Also, it doesn't affect end game in any way, just lets you get there faster.
(And with Zahym's confirmation that they are working on "purchasing items in game" in ceratin regions, that makes me suspect we won't see it and its for the asian market.


If it's for stuff like faster leveling I have absolutely no issue with it. I highly doubt Blizzard is stupid enough to let you purchase gear or whatnot.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Meloree » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:54 pm

Fetzie wrote:However, when you are in almost no danger of dying except when it is already a de facto wipe, do you really need that additional safety net? If the DPS cloak effect procs Seal of Insight, that is 6 SoI procs in 3 seconds, or 300k healing. Depending on how often it procs (and don't forget that RPPM effects all scale with your haste) that additional burst of healing could be more useful than the cheat death proc.


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Assertion: The proc on the tank cloak is hilariously overpowered. So overpowered, in fact, that I contend that it's worth more DPS than the DPS cloak's stats and procs, even with the subpar itemization, in addition to being worth more survival than, roughly, anything that's ever been in the game before, barring 3.2 era Ardent Defender.

How is it worth DPS, you might ask? I contend that it is so hilariously good for raw survival that you could happily start reforging your stats into crit and come out ahead on survival AND dps over any other option.

Proof of assertion is left as an exercise for the reader. Because that is WAY easier on me.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:59 pm

The people who don't see how hilariously op the tank cloak is, probably didn't play in WotLK.

In Wotlk, when every single non pala tank on the game cried about the opness of ardent defender, everyone envyed how paladin tanks could safely ignore using tanking cooldowns, cause even if they did something wrong, AD would proc and they would continue playing like if nothing happened.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby theckhd » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:15 pm

Sagara wrote:Theck is nothing but the tool people use to prove they are NOT wrong.

Wait, did you just call me a tool?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Postby Meloree » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:21 pm

theckhd wrote:
Sagara wrote:Theck is nothing but the tool people use to prove they are NOT wrong.

Wait, did you just call me a tool?

To be fair, Dr. T, I'm pretty sure it was a compliment.
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