Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:53 am

Have to wonder if this will cause even more attrition to the 25 man raiding format. This could bleed off what remains of casual 25 man raid guilds into the new, more accessible difficulty, so that 25 man winds up really being the domain of just high end heroic raiders. Mind you, it could have a similar effect on casual 10 man guilds, but 25 man groups are already harder to maintain.

Not saying this is an automatic negative, just pondering.

On the other hand, if this means that normal modes as easy as Dragon Soul was are dead and buried, it's probably a good thing for raiders. And hey, the last two tiers have already killed off the expectation of progress that casual raid guilds had built up during WotLK and Cataclysm (witness the number that got stuck at Garalon, and in first wing ToT), so those players may be more willing to accept that this new tier is aimed at them and they're not expected to push through normal mode too.


Re: Four difficulty modes, I'm inclined to say that LFR hardly counts, since it's a quick and dirty faceroll with an automatically generated group, something to do to fill gaps.

LFR is for non-raiders to see the content and also to help people gear up. Flex raid is for casual groups and pugs, the "everyone who wants to raid can get a chance" mode. Normal and Heroic are for dedicated raiders - and I do think Normal still serves a purpose.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Winkle » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:52 am

It's interesting people have mentioned /flex replacing normal, i would be more inclined to think /flex may replace LFR since it aids at creating community/guilds.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:56 am

Winkle wrote:It's interesting people have mentioned /flex replacing normal, i would be more inclined to think /flex may replace LFR since it aids at creating community/guilds.

But then people might have to talk to other people to get to raid! We can't have that happening.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Sagara » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:09 am

Well, if you really think about it - LFR still fill the "no-one's online" and "forever alone" slot, while Flex and Normal vie for the same demographic.

It's pointless to dream Blizzard will use Flex to "influence" the player base - this is an essentially reactive move to the paradigm shift we've experienced since Wrath from raids being big things we need to organise around to a much more fluid approach to raiding. They're not going to try a "proactive" move of "let's push players in some direction".
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby lythac » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:00 am

I like the idea.

My main concern is the quality of players in LFR is going to take a complete nosedive. Normal raiders who raid Normal and LFR will instead raid Normal and Flex.

For 25 man guilds I wonder if their 10 man alt runs will be replaced by Flex runs instead.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Worldie » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:08 am

Depends on the guilds. People who alt-run normals will still alt-run normals.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Passionario » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:36 am

If it can scale from 10 to 25, why not 5 to 40?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Andurin » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:44 am

Passionario wrote:If it can scale from 10 to 25, why not 5 to 40?


I think you`ll be stuck with raid mechanics that are really hard then. 10 to 25 man have one thing in common: 2 tank boss mechanics. Blowing it up to 40 shouldnt be a problem, but if you scale it down to 5, they would have to completely skip some mechanics, not sure if that would work. But I wouldnt mind 5 to 40 man raids tbh (since we have problems getting 10 people already).
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:48 am

I think that with the current way the game works (as in how it technically works), most players' computers couldn't handle a 40 player raid any more. Imagine the last 10% of Tortos with an extra 15 players moving around and casting spells and abilities.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Invisusira » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:02 am

...didn't they JUST increase the ilevel gap between LFR and Normal because it was too close?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Sagara » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:13 am

They were planning to add Flex all along!

You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Worldie » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:35 am

That sounded very wrong Sag.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Sagara » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:38 am

I apologise if anyone perceived this message as anything other than the stated metaphor for preparing the passage before doing the deed that Blizzard seems to be prone to.

It's not like Blizzard used the backdoor for this one right?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Fetzie » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:39 am

Sagara wrote:They were planning to add Flex all along!

You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

Sigged :)

Also, it is quite likely that we may be entering Orgrimmar via the back door.
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bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:56 am

Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:23 am

A thought: Right now, in 5.3, it's Heroic Scenarios and the Barrens gear that occupy the "ilevel in between LFR and Normal" slot. What's gonna happen in 5.4 if Flexible Raid is meant to sit there?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Worldie » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:34 am

Probably will have equivalent ilvl to "alternative to raid stuff". So you can either gear through Flexibles or through solo content.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:00 am

What I don't like about the "Flex" replaces "Normal" idea is that it means everyone's going to expect a raid spot, even if you deem they're not "worthy". I don't want lesser content just to accommodate people who can't figure out how to play their class. This is why I don't see Flex replacing normal mode. I hope Flex remains family friendly and nothing more.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:03 am

As a side note... I barely keep up with my gear list with LFR/normal/heroic. Fuck Flex. Think I'll stick to Normal and Heroic. And dear god I don't want to see Thunderforged again either.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby bldavis » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:32 am

honestly i hope they have shared lockouts between /flex, normal and heroic on a toon by toon basis
that way you can have your normal 10 man, your alt flex, and your solo queue LFR

LFR can still be hey lets get easy valor and a chance at an upgrade for that one slot that still hasnt dropped in normal/heroic

i think this way you dont feel like it is mandatory to raid 4 times each week (toc flashbacks anyone?)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby benebarba » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:35 am

To be honest, as someone who will very possibly end up doing some flex-modes and hasn't raided in a while... I actually think I'd have preferred if it was the same ilvl as LFR but tuned to be a bit more of a challenge for an organized group. I really don't see why there's a need for another gear level if the goal is basically to make up for what LFR didn't deliver on: to provide good introductory raiding experience.

You'd basically get up to 4 chances at the same loot tables per week. Assuming your LFR runs weren't nearly full guild runs, I'd assume the flex experience would be more fun and that combined with the extra chance at the same loot would be a sufficient carrot to make people want to do it. Or have we totally abandoned the idea that folks might actually do things for fun?
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby bldavis » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:42 am

just thought of another perk
when you get to a sticking point you can switch down to flex from normal and finish the rest of the instance
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Invisusira » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:49 am

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Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby bldavis » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:55 am

they spelled LFR wrong....
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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