Remove Advertisements

Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid, Siege of Orgrimmar, and more!

Anything, including off-topic posts

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, PsiVen

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:50 pm

To answer to Sagara, I believe this is the aim for this "4 difficulty levels".

LFR: Retardproof, mainly a "solo" raid system, as in fact you don't really need organization or socialization here.
Flexible: "Friends&family" level, for people who really don't have the skill-will to even clear normal, but are above the "bad" level and still have some organization, and want to experience content with friends rather than play with unknown bads in LFR. Ilvl still kept below normal so raiders don't feel "forced" to do it to progress.
Normal: for "standard" raiders, who want a challenge and not just fun.
Heroic: for accomplished raiders who want an actual hard challenge

It can work to me to be honest. We'll see.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13152
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby bldavis » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:53 pm

i suddenly like this much more...i am no longer a dirty casual, but a standard raider! :D
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7339
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:56 pm

There's a difference from "casual" and "bad" davis :p
We have several Casuals in the guild whose skill is above some of our heroic raiders ;)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13152
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Andurin » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:13 pm

Somehow I just cant be excited about it... For weeks we had only 5 to 7 players able to raid, so we kinda put that in the fridge again. And now that we stopped I dont even know if I want to raid anymore, that being in a 10 man normal group or a flex-raid.

Its a cool idea, that for sure. But I gues the "Great unanounced feature" for me is kinda "Meh". I`ll pick something else from the 5.4 patch notes that will be the great feature for me (when they come out).
Andurin
 
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:45 am

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Sagara » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:23 pm

Worldie wrote:To answer to Sagara, I believe this is the aim for this "4 difficulty levels".

LFR: Retardproof, mainly a "solo" raid system, as in fact you don't really need organization or socialization here.
Flexible: "Friends&family" level, for people who really don't have the skill-will to even clear normal, but are above the "bad" level and still have some organization, and want to experience content with friends rather than play with unknown bads in LFR. Ilvl still kept below normal so raiders don't feel "forced" to do it to progress.
Normal: for "standard" raiders, who want a challenge and not just fun.
Heroic: for accomplished raiders who want an actual hard challenge

It can work to me to be honest. We'll see.


I get the concept, but when I'm mulling the idea over, most of the "normal raiders" were actually "Friends and family" types. I'm having a hard time thinking of a demographic I've experienced that couldn't be supported in a LFR > Flex > HM model.

I'm under the impression that Normal made it out alive because they couldn't code a smooth way to handle the switch from Flex <-> HM like we have between NM and HM. Then again, maybe it's just me not having experienced the kind of players NMs would be aimed for in a 4-levels system.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby halabar » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:33 pm

Remember, since this is the last tier of the expac, this may well be an experiment like LFR was in DS. Will be interesting to see what flexraid looks like in the next expac.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9343
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Worldie » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:33 pm

I believe they want normals to be some sort of "preparation" for heroic.

Meaning, they expect that every raider that clear normal has interest of going heroic right after, while they expect players who go for Flexible to be happy with clearing it and maybe 2-3 boss in normal during the patch life.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13152
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Sagara » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:47 pm

Worldie wrote:I believe they want normals to be some sort of "preparation" for heroic.

Meaning, they expect that every raider that clear normal has interest of going heroic right after, while they expect players who go for Flexible to be happy with clearing it and maybe 2-3 boss in normal during the patch life.


I've been thinking about that a bit, and my first thought is: "Just remove Normal from the equation." Imagine that the announcment was, instead, that Normal mode now supports Flexible Raid Size. Full stop. Everything else remains equal.

Friends and family can Flex, and may even (with the right amount of players) field a couple heroics down the line, while hardmoders clear as much in heroic as they can, switching over to Flex to farm bosses they can't down yet. The only risk that entails is that the gap between F&F and Heroic becomes so big no one tries to jump up a level.

Just throwing a disclaimer up before we go too far - I am really happy with the idea - it's just the inner manager that's intuitively trying to challenge the concept
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby halabar » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:19 am

Sagara wrote:
Worldie wrote:I believe they want normals to be some sort of "preparation" for heroic.

Meaning, they expect that every raider that clear normal has interest of going heroic right after, while they expect players who go for Flexible to be happy with clearing it and maybe 2-3 boss in normal during the patch life.


I've been thinking about that a bit, and my first thought is: "Just remove Normal from the equation." Imagine that the announcment was, instead, that Normal mode now supports Flexible Raid Size. Full stop. Everything else remains equal.

Friends and family can Flex, and may even (with the right amount of players) field a couple heroics down the line, while hardmoders clear as much in heroic as they can, switching over to Flex to farm bosses they can't down yet. The only risk that entails is that the gap between F&F and Heroic becomes so big no one tries to jump up a level.


That would be a very huge and likely risk. But depending on acceptance, we might see an expansion of this in the next expac.
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 9343
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Gruck » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:41 am

Probably we end up going Lfr, flex, and normal/hc to get the best of all worlds. And that sounds pretty time consuming. However, I also believe that it might deliver a pleasant alternative to the sometimes pretty annoying lfr. Question will be, if collectables for legendary items etc. are still only dropping once per boss no matter which difficulty.
Gruck
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:32 pm

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Worldie » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:59 am

Likely yes, or people would feel forced to run all 3 every week even if they are heroic raiders just to get legendary done.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 13152
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:12 am

If this goes well it would be interesting if they abolish established raid sizes entirely next expansion. Balancing becomes nontrivial, and I don't even want to think about the calculus raid leaders will have to do. "Okay if we bring +1 healer boss HP goes up too much so we need +1 dps, but then we can't hit benchmarks so we need to drop one person, but then we have to take RHPS into account ..."

Flex would be nice if I could bring overflow people when they show and still be able to raid when they can't, but as a "progression" raider I don't know how Flex is going to impact us much at all. If we have 10 people we're progression raiding, if we have more than 10 people we're bringing 10 people, and if we have less than 10 people we're not raiding. If there's an appreciable ilvl difference and no heroic option, Flex doesn't help us past the first couple weeks at all.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5085
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:15 am

Worldie wrote:Likely yes, or people would feel forced to run all 3 every week even if they are heroic raiders just to get legendary done.


If it meant I could finish the idiot collection quest RIGHT THE FUCK now, I would be all over that.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5085
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Gruck » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:16 am

fuzzygeek wrote:If it meant I could finish the idiot collection quest RIGHT THE FUCK now, I would be all over that.
So true!
Gruck
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:32 pm

Re: Patch 5.4 - Flex Raid!

Postby Sagara » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:27 am

fuzzygeek wrote:If this goes well it would be interesting if they abolish established raid sizes entirely next expansion. Balancing becomes nontrivial, and I don't even want to think about the calculus raid leaders will have to do. "Okay if we bring +1 healer boss HP goes up too much so we need +1 dps, but then we can't hit benchmarks so we need to drop one person, but then we have to take RHPS into account ..."


I'm guessing this is why they didn't simply apply Flex to Normal/Heroic modes. They're gonna have enough headaches to nurse already...
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Fetzie, Klaudandus and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Fetzie, Klaudandus and 1 guest