Troll lore and future expansion

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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:36 pm

Damn, I really was aging some of these people >.>

Thanks for that, Bldavis, it gave me things to consider today while running since I left my ipod at home.



The instance group is only there due to the Infinite Flight doing something with the time line.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby bldavis » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:20 am

lol im glad i could help..
most of my lore knowledge is based on things i have read or heard over 4 years of playing, so not all of it is accurate, or the most up to date
but if i can help give some thought provoking ideas, or generate discussion, i am glad to share it (and if i am wrong, i love to find out what is right)
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Fenrìr » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:49 am

No, it's quite alright. I've been playing for quite some time and I just really dated WC1-3. I think it probably stems from reading some of the books in which Rhonin goes back in time and that's just got me all f'd up.


On another note...I didn't know he died when Theramore blew up...............why wasn't this mentioned considering how big he's been.......
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby benebarba » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:24 am

Fenrìr wrote:No, it's quite alright. I've been playing for quite some time and I just really dated WC1-3. I think it probably stems from reading some of the books in which Rhonin goes back in time and that's just got me all f'd up.


On another note...I didn't know he died when Theramore blew up...............why wasn't this mentioned considering how big he's been.......


Probably the same reason folks (that hadn't read the books) had to wander around Ironforge to figure out why there was this council and where Magni had gone off to.

/sourgrapesaboutthebooks
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:28 am

But if Rhonin died when Theramore got destroyed... why is he still in Dalaran? °_°
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Invisusira » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:30 am

KysenMurrin wrote:The destruction of the World Tree was the ending of WC3. It was not thousands of years ago. In WC3, the Scourge was created to weaken the world in advance of the Legion invasion, which was led by Archimonde, who was killed at the Battle of Mount Hyjal during which the tree was damaged. (And then the Scourge storyline was taken up again in the expansion pack.)

Was going to say... the entire game led up to it; it's not like it just came out of nowhere.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_%28unofficial%29
http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_%28from ... e,_2010%29
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Invisusira » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:32 am

Worldie wrote:But if Rhonin died when Theramore got destroyed... why is he still in Dalaran? °_°


But if the Lich King is dead, and Bolvar Fordragon died with him, how come the entire Death Knight start zone? °-°
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:46 am

Death Knights are actually the only class whose levelling path still makes sense, since (other than a trip to SW) they don't have to see any Cataclysm content until they're level 80. DKs start a few years ago and work their way up to now. Everyone else starts recently and then jumps around in time for 20 levels. ;)

Edit: Except Pandas. They're all over the place from the start.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Sagara » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:03 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Edit: Except Pandas. They're all over the place from the start.


*Play Dr Who theme and out pops a panda in a suit and fez*
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby benebarba » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:22 am

All continuity issues can be explained away if you imagine chromie as your initial questgiver in any zone, with the text: "Well, you didn't have anything better going on and this time could use some help."

that's what I do ;)
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby benebarba » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:24 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Death Knights are actually the only class whose levelling path still makes sense, since (other than a trip to SW) they don't have to see any Cataclysm content until they're level 80. DKs start a few years ago and work their way up to now. Everyone else starts recently and then jumps around in time for 20 levels. ;)

Edit: Except Pandas. They're all over the place from the start.



I'd never thought about it that way... but yeah, the DKs are really the only group that sees a progression that makes much sense (though I'm not sure they still run through the old stormwind gates...)
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Passionario » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:55 am

Worldie wrote:But if Rhonin died when Theramore got destroyed... why is he still in Dalaran? °_°

If a character dies on page 200, why is he still alive on page 15?
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby benebarba » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:22 am

Passionario wrote:
Worldie wrote:But if Rhonin died when Theramore got destroyed... why is he still in Dalaran? °_°

If a character dies on page 200, why is he still alive on page 15?


not quite, in this case, since they did remove General Marcus Jonathan from Stormwind after Theramore, even though stormwind is still sort of stuck in the past (with the exception of the pandas showing up in a back corner).
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby halabar » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:22 am

benebarba wrote:All continuity issues can be explained away if you imagine chromie as your initial questgiver in any zone, with the text: "Well, you didn't have anything better going on and this time could use some help."

that's what I do ;)


The easiest way to deal with any of the continuity issues is to consider all non-90 toons as starting at some point in the past, and you are basically bringing them through time up to the current time. No fresh toon is really starting at the "current" time, they are all stuck at some point in the past, even though that point gets adjusted now and then (refresh of starting zones in Cata, etc).

So, yeah, your baby toons are getting mail from someone in the future, and when they get to the capital cities they see things and people from the future.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Chunes » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:38 am

I like that take on it.

There are some points in the early game that break the chronological continuity, like having valkyr rezzing forsaken in deathknell. Didn't undeads just sort of "wake up" on their own without any help from the valks in vanilla?
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby benebarba » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:46 am

Chunes wrote:I like that take on it.

There are some points in the early game that break the chronological continuity, like having valkyr rezzing forsaken in deathknell. Didn't undeads just sort of "wake up" on their own without any help from the valks in vanilla?


I think now all of the races except the blood elves and draenei see a post-shattering start point (worgen/goblins see a bit before, during and after), and that continues more or less unchanged until outland. The Draenei starting area is unchanged, not sure about the Belf area.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby halabar » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:40 am

benebarba wrote:
Chunes wrote:I like that take on it.

There are some points in the early game that break the chronological continuity, like having valkyr rezzing forsaken in deathknell. Didn't undeads just sort of "wake up" on their own without any help from the valks in vanilla?


I think now all of the races except the blood elves and draenei see a post-shattering start point (worgen/goblins see a bit before, during and after), and that continues more or less unchanged until outland. The Draenei starting area is unchanged, not sure about the Belf area.


But they are all at some point in the past. So if we just deal with a fresh toon at starting at whatever point in the past, it's easier to accept. The continuity is a mess anyway with Outlands and Northrend, so there's no point in trying to make further sense of it. Outlands will be even weirder once Garrosh is taken down, and you get to Nagrand and deal with both Thrall and Garrosh in pre-Cata/pre-Mists form.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby benebarba » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:49 am

yeah, I think wierd timelines are an inevitability in a game like WOW. Maybe some of their experiments in phasing will help that (Theramore, for example).
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby bldavis » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:37 pm

i like the idea that time is passing while you level..it makes a lot of things make sense
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:48 pm

DKs aren't "perfect" in their timeline since they do have to deal with Outlands, which happened prior to the whole LK debacle. Unless you're considering the DK uprising to have happened before Outlands and concludes after Outlands.

I guess you could just consider the Dark Portal a transporter to another time/place, as opposed to just another place.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:16 am

The Burning Crusade expansion didn't really have much effect on the rest of the game world, so you can see it as kind of outside. It has to be prior to some things, but I don't think the freeing of the DKs has to take place after it. Unlike Cataclysm content pre-80.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby benebarba » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:18 am

KysenMurrin wrote:The Burning Crusade expansion didn't really have much effect on the rest of the game world, so you can see it as kind of outside. It has to be prior to some things, but I don't think the freeing of the DKs has to take place after it. Unlike Cataclysm content pre-80.


hmm. never thought about it that way.

I think the DK zone ending at least has to happen after Arthas has become the LK and converted Thassarian et al. to DKs (because they need to be present at the battle for light's hope chapel). And that would be somewhere after the time of the Scourge assault on Quel'Thalas? But the timing of that kind of confuses me: I think that's before the re-opening of the dark portal, but after Arthas had returned to Lorderon with his Scourge army from Northrend? It seems like it gets a little funky if you try to also work in the ability for draenei to be DKs in that starting area (assuming they are turned as a result of fallin in battle to the scourge forces either during the invasion pre-cursor to the northrend campaign or during), but I don't know if that is needed.
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Re: Troll lore and future expansion

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:22 am

Arthas creating the Death Knights could be anywhere from WC3. The Dark Portal reopening was long after, at the start of TBC.

The DK start zone was set shortly prior to the start of WotLK.

(Aside: You know what I'd like to see sometime in the future? A revamp of Outlands to bring it up to date paired with the introduction of a new hero class - Demon Hunter, naturally - that starts in Outland. The revamp would probably have to include a storyline of binding the remains of Draenor together to explain why it continues to exist instead of finishing the process of crumbling into the Nether.)
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