Patch 5.3 Notes

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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby benebarba » Tue May 28, 2013 8:46 am

halabar wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:I'd say his comments overall - and changes made to the game - suggest they do look at it from both sides. Not that they necessarily get it right (aforementioned Shaman rebalance moved Enhance from all using Unleashed Fury to all using Primal Elementalist).


But I still don't think they really solicit the feedback necessary to make better decisions. In the case of Blink Strikes, they seem to be fine with a passive, IF people are still picking the other talents as well, but I think they fail to realize that the other talents really aren't that interesting, they just may have better situational use. MoC is certainly better for controlled burst, but I would say Lynx looses out here, as popping another CD every 30 sec is neither interesting or "harder", it's just another button to press. That's the real problem.


how do you solicit constructive, meaningful, feedback for all of the specs from an 8 million playerbase and keep the signal-to-noise ration reasonable? Aside from the PTR and similar efforts, that is.

I thought they admitted that they keep at least somewhat abreast of the community's theorycrafting efforts - which to be honest is probably the best thing they could do since it informs so many decisions within the playerbase. I think it may be more a case that their design preference doesn't always match with what people would like.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Tue May 28, 2013 8:56 am

Hunter theorycraft isn't what it used to be... :roll: ... poor Nooska.

On another note, I'm bugging GC to make the Heroic Deeds quest a weekly. Getting one 516 item guaranteed a week would be nice without being too OP. I'm not going to hold out hope though... :wink:
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Tue May 28, 2013 9:54 am

benebarba wrote:A couple guildies and I were having a conversation about WOW development (in general, not just abilities) and we all came to this conclusion: they seem to be more likely to overshoot before finally getting close to the sweet spot than to hit a more moderate point. While it seems wasteful, I can't help but think it simplifies things for them. Think about it like an optimization problem: they may not have a good robust predictor, so going 'big' and splitting the difference would yield a middle ground more reliably than trying to walk toward it from one side.

Yup - it's almost always better to do design changes this way (overshooting). The playerbase tends to throw a tantrum when you walk it back down to where it should be though! *laugh*

halabar wrote:In the case of Blink Strikes, they seem to be fine with a passive, IF people are still picking the other talents as well, but I think they fail to realize that the other talents really aren't that interesting, they just may have better situational use. MoC is certainly better for controlled burst, but I would say Lynx looses out here, as popping another CD every 30 sec is neither interesting or "harder", it's just another button to press. That's the real problem.

Well, the problem is that neither MoC nor Lynx really does have a better "situational" use than a pure passive. Neither one plays well with Lust for example. They're both just "rotational" skills with a super-long CD. They also (particularly Lynx) _do_ have situations where they are far worse than a pure passive, though.

I'd rather have a simple +dmg passive than either of those, even if the passive sims slightly worse single target. It's a pure bonus when that passive is actually GOOD for doing things like chasing Whirl Turtles around!

(The other bonus is that Blink Strikes plays _really_ well with Beast Cleave right now. I think Strikes is fine and that Cleave needs to be walked back a bit - 50% was too low, but 75% is probably a bit high. I don't think Strikes is OP single target though.)

Aside @ Nooska: Is it worth weaving Multis every 4s against two targets right now for BM? (With Blink Strikes obv). It certainly has to be for three, but I imagine the #s are probably pretty close for two.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Tue May 28, 2013 9:56 am

halabar wrote:On another note, I'm bugging GC to make the Heroic Deeds quest a weekly. Getting one 516 item guaranteed a week would be nice without being too OP. I'm not going to hold out hope though... :wink:


Honestly, I was pretty shocked when I found out it wasn't!
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Nooska » Wed May 29, 2013 5:31 am

Ohh, don't feel bad for me, I've stepped out before losing my skin in the game.

Granted, if my raidgroup had kept together and I was stilla ctually playing (instead of just paying) I wouldprobably have kept up with it.
I did a recount - I've been doing the EJ BM thread for 2½ years, almost 2 full expansions.

But yeah - I have strong doubts that whoever takes over will be intereste din making the guide usable for the masses rather then the few mathematicians (think Prot paladin á la Thekcs blogs, but without the explanation and conclusions) - either that or be overimplified, so its useless for anything really.
I've yet to see actual data presentation from the ones that I think would be most likely to take over the guide - I'm a little suprised noone has yet though, but maybe thats because the EJ mod(s) responsible see the same issues I do, dunno.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Klaudandus » Thu May 30, 2013 12:31 pm

When do we start the 5.4 thread? =P
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Thu May 30, 2013 12:40 pm

Klaudandus wrote:When do we start the 5.4 thread? =P


As soon as the first PTR hits. Or now if you really want to..
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby benebarba » Thu May 30, 2013 12:46 pm

halabar wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:When do we start the 5.4 thread? =P


As soon as the first PTR hits. Or now if you really want to..


lemme start up my speculation generator and let's go for it!
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Klaudandus » Thu May 30, 2013 12:51 pm

Well, we can start with that GC interview, where he mentions no VP vendors in 5.4!?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Thu May 30, 2013 1:07 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Well, we can start with that GC interview, where he mentions no VP vendors in 5.4!?


Seems like a good place to start.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Fenrìr » Thu May 30, 2013 1:28 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Well, we can start with that GC interview, where he mentions no VP vendors in 5.4!?



did I miss this?!
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Fri May 31, 2013 9:07 am

I'm sure there will be other methods of acquiring gear that will have people bitching and moaning and wanting valor vendors back.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Fri May 31, 2013 9:15 am

Valor vendors were certainly useful in T14. Somewhat less so in T15. I would expect them to be even more marginal in T16. They will rarely put items on those vendors that come close to BiS, so they are always a stopgap choice.

The question then becomes, will the valor upgrades still be there in T16? I would suspect so, unless they really want to slow things down. But I can't imagine what else we'd spend valor on if the valor vendors and the upgrades are gone.

Also, does this this mean the previous tier valor vendors are gone as well? If so, you will want to get any alts you plan on gearing geared up before 5.4 drops.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Fetzie » Fri May 31, 2013 9:31 am

I don't see them removing the gearing path for alts.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby benebarba » Fri May 31, 2013 9:33 am

halabar wrote:Valor vendors were certainly useful in T14. Somewhat less so in T15. I would expect them to be even more marginal in T16. They will rarely put items on those vendors that come close to BiS, so they are always a stopgap choice.

The question then becomes, will the valor upgrades still be there in T16? I would suspect so, unless they really want to slow things down. But I can't imagine what else we'd spend valor on if the valor vendors and the upgrades are gone.

Also, does this this mean the previous tier valor vendors are gone as well? If so, you will want to get any alts you plan on gearing geared up before 5.4 drops.


Could be they choose to scrap what they've been doing with valor and try something else. I mean, the current vendors required a raid rep (yeah, LFR gave you it), or daily rep (yeah, they made that easier)... so they were certainly less accessible than the cata valor vendors were (got valor? good. Have gear.).

Could also be the old ones remain but become sold for JP without (or with a lower) rep. JP seems to be nigh pointless at this point.

-- This entry brought to you by Benebarba's speculation generator --
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