Patch 5.3 Notes

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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Sagara » Fri May 17, 2013 5:00 am

First thing first, our ShotR does extremely well only against powerful attacks, so, sure, our TDR is average at best, but like Theck loves to hammer, WHEN it matters (the big spike), it's huge. It should be no small wonder that the worst offenders are bosses that throw humongous physical damage (Horridon, Durumu, Ji-kun and Primordius and Tortos to a lesser extend). That's what people are complaining about - not the TDR, but just how massive our control can be if wielded well.

Second, don't forget that we're second only to DK's in the self-healing department. I'm always top in the Healing & Damage Taken listings, but don't forget that (no kidding) 45% of that healing is SS and SoI.

Don't get blinded by TDR, because this is not what makes a powerful tank. It's spike management, and we reign supreme in that department.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Klaudandus » Fri May 17, 2013 5:19 am

Sagara wrote: That's what people are complaining about - not the TDR, but just how massive our control can be if wielded well.


There is something so deliciously ironic about that, seeing as what we were all told (all the tank classes) was that Active Mitigation was where the future was.

It just happens that ours can be really powerful under certain conditions.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby theckhd » Fri May 17, 2013 5:35 am

Sagara wrote:Calling it: ShotR will eventually have an absolute (non-%) cap based off AP and Mastery. If they're honest, they'll at least up our damage by a truckload to compensate.

That would sort of miss the point. AM is supposed to scale as a percent so it's equally useful on all formats and difficulty levels. Shield Block, Savage Defense (dodge), and Stagger work the same way, and in theory Vengeance AP conversions do the same for Shield Barrier, WoG, and other non-%-based AM effects.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Sagara » Fri May 17, 2013 6:02 am

Well, I don't see the nerf to the ShotR baseline really helping much. Yeah, spikes will be a bit spikier, but that's nothing to the JRPG-hair levels of spikiness our fellow tanks suffer.

EDIT: just re-read myself and had to shout out: *SPIIIIIIIIIIKE!* Sorry.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby theckhd » Fri May 17, 2013 6:09 am

I think the SotR nerf has two reasons behind it:
1) They didn't expect us to stack haste as much as we have. Thus our SotR uptime and control is better now than they expected it to be at this point. Nerfing the magnitude probably brings it back into line with their expectations (both in a TDR sense, and in a controllable burst mitigation sense).

2) The extra baseline mitigation mattered a lot when tanks were stepping into MSV or HoF fairly undergeared for the content, and thus missing a lot of mastery. The baseline value gives them a buffer. Tanks that step into MSV nowadays generally have gone through LFR or gotten a little crafted gear, so that buffer is less important. They can reduce it now without significantly affecting the player base. It also adds a little more incentive to stack mastery rather than haste.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Sagara » Fri May 17, 2013 6:26 am

More than the reasoning, I'm wondering about the magnitude of the nerf's effect.

It's still napkin math and guesstimating, but I don't see us suddenly stop rocking hard on massive physical spikes. (*Spiiiiiiiiiiiike!*) It feels more like they're trying to keep us under control for the final raid while working on a new iteration in the background (possibly 6.0?)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Fri May 17, 2013 7:40 am

Still no Blue explaining exactly what they are doing with hunters, when they are further neutering BM utility while saying hunter specs need more distinction.. umm...

Also, latest build on the PTR is marked as Release.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Fri May 17, 2013 10:14 am

halabar wrote:Still no Blue explaining exactly what they are doing with hunters, when they are further neutering BM utility while saying hunter specs need more distinction.. umm...


Are you intentionally ignoring the reasons why they're changing BM pet utility because you don't like the answer?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Fri May 17, 2013 10:43 am

Flex wrote:
halabar wrote:Still no Blue explaining exactly what they are doing with hunters, when they are further neutering BM utility while saying hunter specs need more distinction.. umm...


Are you intentionally ignoring the reasons why they're changing BM pet utility because you don't like the answer?


You mean the OMGHUNTERSARESOOPQQQQ?

The Blues have not said much about it, other than that they are making the changes, or if BM will get something back for PVE to compensate for the utility loss.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Nooska » Fri May 17, 2013 10:50 am

I feel confident ignoreing the "BM is too powerful in PvP" argument, because if that was the norm, there would have been loads of nerfs in general over time to other specs as well (and buffs for BM pre 5.0).

That said, I think it is odd the way they are going about it, by nerfing an iconic BM difference (the lowered CDs on pet specials) from the other specs. By all means, if CC is too easily used (too low a CD) up the CD, but don't remove the CD reduction for BM. Doubling the CD hurts the other specs just as much anyway, and they weren't "OP in PvP".

I find it odd too that while talking about needing difference between specs (yes it was mostly mentioned in regards to rogues, but as a general principle) they are cutting down ion the distinguishing features of hunter specs.

Not that I'm bothered either way, I've done all the PvP achievements I needed to do on Nooska - and these days I think I would go with my shadowpriest for PvP if I actually played (I'm still paying, just not playing).
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Fri May 17, 2013 11:41 am

Nooska wrote:I feel confident ignoreing the "BM is too powerful in PvP" argument, because if that was the norm, there would have been loads of nerfs in general over time to other specs as well (and buffs for BM pre 5.0).


Check patch notes and tell me there haven't been tons of balance changes for PvP implemented this expansion.

Nooska wrote:Doubling the CD hurts the other specs just as much anyway, and they weren't "OP in PvP".


Other specs get a buff due to Intimidation becoming a talent, not having a baseline stun bothers me the most on my hunter.

Nooska wrote:Not that I'm bothered either way, I've done all the PvP achievements I needed to do on Nooska - and these days I think I would go with my shadowpriest for PvP if I actually played (I'm still paying, just not playing).


That's how I know you don't pay attention with regards to your first statement. Shadow Priests have been hit with more changes for PvP issues than any other spec.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Fri May 17, 2013 6:05 pm

Currently, we expect to release World of Warcraft Patch 5.3: Escalation next week on Tuesday, May 21!
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Fri May 17, 2013 7:52 pm

So, now the question is, what pieces to valor upgrade, and when? Factoring in potential thunderforged items, I don't have any BiS items, but am sitting on 3000 valor, with no desirable valor items to buy.

Hmmm.. Blow all the valor on the best items for the greatest performance boost? Or sit on 1k for potential raid drops?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Fetzie » Sat May 18, 2013 2:00 am

Blow the Valor, you'll collect another 1k during the week.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat May 18, 2013 2:41 am

Yeah, the new prices make it easy to spend. You can fully upgrade two items a week.
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