Patch 5.3 Notes

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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Thu May 09, 2013 10:26 am

Chunes wrote:So, hala, or anyone else who cares to respond, what's the tl;dr for your weekly grind?


Goals for week (PvE):
- 1000 VP (asap, so that alts get 1.5x)
- 50 LC for runes
- a Key to the treasure scenario
- All possible SPA rep, so Champions quest and the 4 ToT LFR sections.
- Nalak, Sha/Galleon if needed. Oondasta if possible, but those groups don't form often on my server.

For VP, I start on Tuesday and do the following:
- Go to Thunder Isle, starts one set of the dailies there (30 LC). Check for rares - if you see one and it's not engaged throw a mention into General and wait a bit to see if anyone else shows up before killing it. (Once someone does this, most people will reciprocate).
- Only kill rares until you get a Key, ignore them afterward unless you're right next to it. Make sure you get at least one though, even if you get a Key questing earlier as the first always gives you a Ritual Stone.
- Do [Champions of the Thunder King] (150 VP, 5 LC, 300 SPA rep) You don't need a tank for this if you have a warlock or hunter - the pets can tank those just fine. Do the lightning guy in the center, then the direhorn in the cave and the spirit guy on the island right near there (that spawns the add you ignore).
- Get in a Nalak group while there. They're running constantly early in the week, and you really only need 15 people for it.
- While there (esp. if DPS), queue a heroic, ToT LFR, and scenario. All 3 of these give 210+ VP total.
- Do the Treasure run if you have <= 6 Elder Charms, else just save the key.

If you're still short LC after finishing the Isle dailies, then the fastest way to get them are either Golden Lotus or Klaxxi dailies (if you've opened enough of them). Or, you can do pet battles while waiting in the LFR queue and get LC that way.

Subsequent days: Do a scenario and heroic when you get the double-valor for them, and LFR or real raids until you're VP capped for the week. Doesn't take long really - I'm usually at 1000 on Thursday each week for my main.

Chunes wrote:I am starting to get the itch to get my DK some pve gear, but I'm pretty clueless as to what the most efficient method is to do so.


It a new 90 or a PvP char? PvP stuff is good for PvE now - just go run the treasure scenario and get your 15 Elder Charms and plow through LFR using a coin on every fight :)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Bellanka » Thu May 09, 2013 10:33 am

Chunes wrote:Thanks Bellanka!


You're welcome! You can also run LFR for valor instead of Heroics, but I don't have the time/patience for it and my main doesn't need anything from it. I'm pretty time limited so I try to do what I can for the fastest caps with least amount of time involved.

Jabari wrote:- Nalak, Sha/Galleon if needed. Oondasta if possible, but those groups don't form often on my server.


Try using OpenRaid(.us? I don't recall, it's a Favorite in my browser) - I almost always find a Sha/Galleon/Nalak group within minutes of looking for my alt. Oon you might need to be a lot pickier, but my server/faction's pop is too low to get Oon most weeks. OpenRaid is a huge hassle saver, because it means I'm not the one putting it together.
Last edited by Bellanka on Thu May 09, 2013 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Chunes » Thu May 09, 2013 10:36 am

Decent PvP gear, been 90 for probably about a month so I already am full honor and 2pc conquest + conq weapon.

Maybe tonight I'll look into this treasure scenario dealy. I have literally done 0 pve except for a handful of nalak/galleon since I dinged 90.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Bellanka » Thu May 09, 2013 10:40 am

Chunes wrote:Decent PvP gear, been 90 for probably about a month so I already am full honor and 2pc conquest + conq weapon.

Maybe tonight I'll look into this treasure scenario dealy. I have literally done 0 pve except for a handful of nalak/galleon since I dinged 90.


Your best bet is that scenario.

Don't worry about finishing it - just open all the chests you can get to safely. Prioritize big chests for extra keys to use at the end, as those can drop extra Mogu Runes. But the regular chests drop Greater Charms. I average 12-17 a run. You can then xserver normal modes from last tier with OpenRaid or just use them in the old LFRs to get PVE gear faster.

It makes gearing alts a lot less painful.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Thu May 09, 2013 10:55 am

Nooska wrote:This might have been true if BM actually simmed lower than SV/MM, fact is BM has simmed (and performed) as top spec for all of MoP, excluding heavy aoe fights (or trash) where SV could deliver a beat down due to instant SrS damage.


Actually, BM was top for most/all of Cata as well. If any of them deserve a stigma right now it's MM - that didn't just sim the worst of the hunter specs, it was the worst DPS spec for a while among all classes (probably including Holy Priests in Chastise).

Bellanka wrote:Try using OpenRaid - I almost always find a Sha/Galleon/Nalak group within minutes of looking for my alts. Oon you might need to be a lot pickier, but my server/faction's pop is too low to get Oon most weeks. OpenRaid is a huge hassle saver, because it means I'm not the one putting it together.


Hmm, may have to try that for Oon. I can usually get in Galleon/Sha groups with all of my 4 chars that still need those, but didn't get Oon at all last week with anyone. Only got into one group, then wiped twice and the group fell apart.

Chunes wrote:Decent PvP gear, been 90 for probably about a month so I already am full honor and 2pc conquest + conq weapon.

Maybe tonight I'll look into this treasure scenario dealy. I have literally done 0 pve except for a handful of nalak/galleon since I dinged 90.


Ah you're plenty good enough to jam through the LFRs then. Just go get a key from the rares on Thunder Isle and get your Elder Charms. :)

I usually just try to strip clean the first room:
- Enter the room, open the couple on the right (not left, yet), and the ones near the lightning pillar.
- Dodge center statues falling on you, open the ones in their feet. Head to the left (just behind the first set of lightning pillars) - climb up onto the high area there, open up everything up top, drop down behind, and open that stuff.
- You'll come out back at the entrance again, on the left side. Open the small ones on that side, get past the lightning pillars and statues. There are "cubbyholes" on both sides with a few boxes, open up everything on both sides.
- You can (sometimes?) get up onto the high area on the right side (before the 2nd set of lightning pillars) by climbing boxes but I don't always get up there. It's good if you can, though, there are usually a couple of the big boxes up there.
- Get everything in reach past the 2nd set of lightning pillars and pull the lever (left side of the steps to the next room).
- In the hallway, climb the boxes on the left side (at the start), open those up there, jump down into the next room on the far side.
- If I still have some time (1 min +, but I usually don't), I run directly to the next set of stairs - dodge tiles, caster mobs, sentry totems. Climb the stairs, then jump over the rail on the "right" side (looking at the door to the 3rd room). It's easy to climb up to where the big statue is there and there's a ton of stuff to open without having to fight anything.
- Time out, use the small ritual keys, and enjoy your 12+ Elder Charms! :)

Bellanka wrote:as those can drop extra Mogu Runes

Whoa - really? I've _never_ seen that, and I usually get 1 or 2 ritual-keys a run. I always just get Elder Charms/tons of gold/rep scrolls/Great Panda Banquets from those.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Chunes » Thu May 09, 2013 11:00 am

what's the reasoning behind just stripmining the first room or so for chests, rather than trying for one of the super optimized "big chest only" routes? I've seen vids of some dude getting like 20 large chests, any point in trying to do that aside from the fun factor?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Thu May 09, 2013 11:18 am

I have no set weekly goals until I reach a point where my natural weekly intake brings me close to a long term goal reachable by a bit of grinding.

What's the item level of your PvP stuff? If you're at 480+ you can skip the 5.0 LFRs and go right to ToT LFR. Where your only weekly grind will be to get 50 Lesser Charms for Mogu Runes of Fate.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Chunes » Thu May 09, 2013 11:21 am

Flex wrote:I have no set weekly goals until I reach a point where my natural weekly intake brings me close to a long term goal reachable by a bit of grinding.

What's the item level of your PvP stuff? If you're at 480+ you can skip the 5.0 LFRs and go right to ToT LFR. Where your only weekly grind will be to get 50 Lesser Charms for Mogu Runes of Fate.


Nice!

The tyrannical 2h just put me up to 481, so that may be a viable path to take.

I'll probably make that the priority for now and if I have time/energy I'll do the accompanying 5.0 LFR's to try and bootstrap my pve gearing a little faster.

Unles you can run ToT LFR multiple times/week. Can you?
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Thu May 09, 2013 11:23 am

You can. First boss kills are the only one where you get a loot chance and bonus roll. Every other kill is just bonus roll only.

Maybe do the 5.0 ones once to get a feel for raiding and rotations again.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Thu May 09, 2013 11:27 am

Chunes wrote:what's the reasoning behind just stripmining the first room or so for chests, rather than trying for one of the super optimized "big chest only" routes? I've seen vids of some dude getting like 20 large chests, any point in trying to do that aside from the fun factor?


If you can do that, cool, go for it, but you don't want to waste a week by failing and only getting 4-5 Elder Charms. You want to max those to gear up quickly from the earlier LFRs. Better to stay in the first room or so and get 15 or so.

With the valor upgrade coming, capping VP will be critical again for a while. So depending on role there are different paths for getting capped. If you still need LFR gear, then that's an easy choice.

However, since I am leveling my lock, and will be 90 soon on it, I'm going to run into the problem of too many toons to cap (3) and not having the time, so I need to figure out which toon I'll be dedicating to raiding, and making sure that toon is capped.

What works best for you is likely going to be determined by queue times.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby halabar » Thu May 09, 2013 11:28 am

Flex wrote:I have no set weekly goals until I reach a point where my natural weekly intake brings me close to a long term goal reachable by a bit of grinding.

What's the item level of your PvP stuff? If you're at 480+ you can skip the 5.0 LFRs and go right to ToT LFR. Where your only weekly grind will be to get 50 Lesser Charms for Mogu Runes of Fate.


However, with 5.3 and the valor upgrades, getting valor capped, at least for the first 3 or 4 weeks, will become a near-requirement for raiding....
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am

halabar wrote:
Flex wrote:I have no set weekly goals until I reach a point where my natural weekly intake brings me close to a long term goal reachable by a bit of grinding.

What's the item level of your PvP stuff? If you're at 480+ you can skip the 5.0 LFRs and go right to ToT LFR. Where your only weekly grind will be to get 50 Lesser Charms for Mogu Runes of Fate.


However, with 5.3 and the valor upgrades, getting valor capped, at least for the first 3 or 4 weeks, will become a near-requirement for raiding....


Not for me!

I should change my signature to "Valor Capping 0 toons weekly and proud of it"

Here's my daily play (bolded ones are 90):
Paladin 1 (raid main): Do the farm. If needed do Champions of the Thunder kKng weekly for rep and a decent chunk of VP. Try to find a key by killing rares or finding a trove while doing the weekly.
Paladin 2: Do the farm.
Hunter: Do the farm.
DK: Do the farm.
Warrior: Do the farm. Create a Lightning Steel Ingot.
Shaman: Transmute Living Steel.
Druid: Transmute Living Steel.
Priest: Make an Imperial Silk.

I can be in and out of the game in under an hour if I want to do the daily chores but don't want to do other things.

If you're bringing a 90 up the following works well:
Make sure you have the double rep tokens for Klaxxi and 5.2 faction rep purchased and used.
On your main farm up about 10K rep worth of Klaxxi tokens from Zandalari rares.
On your main run the Treasure Room and turn all historical parchments in for BoA rep tokens and send them to your alt.
Use the Klaxxi rep tokens and 5.2 faction tokens on your alt.
Quest through Dread Wastes so you hit exalted with the Klaxxi. Buy weapons. If you finish the Anglers and Chen quest chains you can get a 489 ring as well.
Run through all the single player scenarios on the Isle of Thunder. If done right you'll be honored and can buy a 476 belt. Kill a rare or look for a Trove on te isle to get a key.
Run the treasure room and hopefully get 16 Elder Charms. Incantations help with the charms.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Jabari » Thu May 09, 2013 11:47 am

Chunes wrote:I'll probably make that the priority for now and if I have time/energy I'll do the accompanying 5.0 LFR's to try and bootstrap my pve gearing a little faster.

Unles you can run ToT LFR multiple times/week. Can you?


Remember that drop rates for the T14 LFRs (and coins there) are quite a bit higher than the ToT ones. My newly-90 warlock did one pass through T14 LFR and got 10 drops (no tier somehow, a duplicate belt, and boots that were replaced by a Galleon drop later in week; but did get a sha-touched weapon and both trinkets). Used an Elder Charm on every fight.

Also, if you've not done ANY PvE at all you'll want to go through all the T14 ones simply to start collecting Sigils. Make sure you get the quest from Wrathion first!
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Teranoid » Thu May 09, 2013 12:19 pm

halabar wrote:
Flex wrote:I have no set weekly goals until I reach a point where my natural weekly intake brings me close to a long term goal reachable by a bit of grinding.

What's the item level of your PvP stuff? If you're at 480+ you can skip the 5.0 LFRs and go right to ToT LFR. Where your only weekly grind will be to get 50 Lesser Charms for Mogu Runes of Fate.


However, with 5.3 and the valor upgrades, getting valor capped, at least for the first 3 or 4 weeks, will become a near-requirement for raiding....


For people in guilds that blame their poor execution on gear maybe.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby theckhd » Thu May 09, 2013 3:03 pm

Teranoid wrote:
halabar wrote:However, with 5.3 and the valor upgrades, getting valor capped, at least for the first 3 or 4 weeks, will become a near-requirement for raiding....


For people in guilds that blame their poor execution on gear maybe.

I think that's shortsighted. Most guilds progressing on heroic modes will take any advantage they can get, especially since the ilvl scaling within ToT boss tuning is much steeper than previous tiers.

I know most people in my guild plan on capping weekly for item upgrades, as are the few other guilds I talk to in similar positions.

Taking advantage of extra character power doesn't imply that you're bad, especially when it's low-hanging fruit (a few challenge modes is all it takes to cap with raiding).
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Darielle » Thu May 09, 2013 4:24 pm

Not to mention the upgrades on the slots people will mostly care to upgrade (weapons, trinkets, etc.) make a big difference on power compared to, say, Necks.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Nooska » Fri May 10, 2013 4:43 am

Jabari wrote:
Nooska wrote:This might have been true if BM actually simmed lower than SV/MM, fact is BM has simmed (and performed) as top spec for all of MoP, excluding heavy aoe fights (or trash) where SV could deliver a beat down due to instant SrS damage.


Actually, BM was top for most/all of Cata as well. If any of them deserve a stigma right now it's MM - that didn't just sim the worst of the hunter specs, it was the worst DPS spec for a while among all classes (probably including Holy Priests in Chastise).


BM was marginally on tom fpr T11, after that SV and MM beat them out pretty easily - same situation as in wrath where BM was on top in T7 and then just didn't scale enough ending with MM on the undisputed top.

Tha BM is still simming ahead in the second tier is (appart from TBC's scroll wheel macro) a first - BM usually performs extremely well in th first tier, then falls far behind due to scaling and pet issus - the new way of handling pets from MoP has really changed BM for the better - ironically the devs probably didn't thinkk they ahd fixed the underlying issue which is why BM lept ahead with 5.2, and is getting nerfs now (what was previously needed to just keep BM competitive now throws it ahead of the curve, so they nerf something to try and keep it under control)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Klaudandus » Mon May 13, 2013 7:00 am

Can you give any insight as to why the Cata version of Sacred Shield was removed from Ret? And is it possible it will return?
Honestly, it's because in Cata so many paladins asked for the LK version back. I guess we could alternate every expansion. (Source)

Is it not possible to have the Cata version of Sacred Shield baseline for Ret while also having the talent choice?
One of the issues is that Ret mostly takes SH while Prot only takes SS. Maybe both Ret and Prot would want (Cata) SS as a talent. (Source) Could replace current talent with the Cataclysm Sacred Shield and give the current one to Prot baseline I guess. (Source)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Worldie » Mon May 13, 2013 7:19 am

I'd think the Cata SS would become a totally mandatory talent for any raider if they did so. Maybe just Holy could get Eternal Flame instead (MAYBE), but still, Cata SS was very powerful for PvE (and possibly PvP too)
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Chunes » Mon May 13, 2013 7:32 am

How did cata SS work?

I cannot even recall.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby benebarba » Mon May 13, 2013 7:35 am

Klaudandus wrote:Can you give any insight as to why the Cata version of Sacred Shield was removed from Ret? And is it possible it will return?
Honestly, it's because in Cata so many paladins asked for the LK version back. I guess we could alternate every expansion. (Source)

Is it not possible to have the Cata version of Sacred Shield baseline for Ret while also having the talent choice?
One of the issues is that Ret mostly takes SH while Prot only takes SS. Maybe both Ret and Prot would want (Cata) SS as a talent. (Source) Could replace current talent with the Cataclysm Sacred Shield and give the current one to Prot baseline I guess. (Source)


this made me wonder: is there any place where you can actually look through older ability/skill/talent lists? wowhead, wowdb, etc. all seem to only have the latest available.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Klaudandus » Mon May 13, 2013 7:36 am

Chunes wrote:How did cata SS work?

I cannot even recall.

Patch 4.0.6 (8-Feb-2011): New version added, replacing Rebuke; When reduced below 30% health, paladins gain the Sacred Shield effect.
The Sacred Shield absorbs X damage and increases healing received by
20%. Lasts 15 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 30
seconds. Undispellable.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Flex » Mon May 13, 2013 8:07 am

benebarba wrote:this made me wonder: is there any place where you can actually look through older ability/skill/talent lists? wowhead, wowdb, etc. all seem to only have the latest available.


I asked this to the WoW Head admin since the Archive link sounds like it should be an actual archive. They said that's not its intent but to simply be a snapshot of the previous patch or something. I think it is a shame, I'd love for there to be a way to see previous "states of the game."

The Current Sacred Shield is a broken talent so it does need to be reworked.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby benebarba » Mon May 13, 2013 8:21 am

Flex wrote:
benebarba wrote:this made me wonder: is there any place where you can actually look through older ability/skill/talent lists? wowhead, wowdb, etc. all seem to only have the latest available.


I asked this to the WoW Head admin since the Archive link sounds like it should be an actual archive. They said that's not its intent but to simply be a snapshot of the previous patch or something. I think it is a shame, I'd love for there to be a way to see previous "states of the game."


Agreed! I imagine there'd be a lot to keep track of, but man it would make discussions easier.

Flex wrote:The Current Sacred Shield is a broken talent so it does need to be reworked.


That or make it baseline to maybe a spec or two (I'm thinking prot and maybe holy) and re-work that whole tier. I guess one advantage of the new talent system is that it does generate some chance of dialogue about what to baseline and what to remove/heavily modify.
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Re: Patch 5.3 Notes

Postby Klaudandus » Mon May 13, 2013 8:28 am

if you have the spellid of the old version, you can find it on wowdb or wowhead, i think
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